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Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2012/12/9 15:03
From Lewistown, PA
Posts: 418
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
Quote:

jeremymcon wrote:
I'm thinking maybe the 7 weight line I put on it was a little heavy for the rod.


Its a South Bend Model 47, their "bass taper" rod. Its a big, heavy affair meant to throw big chunky lures to bass and other large fish. Believe it or not, but people fished for bass back in the '30s and '40s, too, even before Ranger jetboats.

Just because now the only people who use bamboo rods use dainty affairs and cast them to discerning sprung creek trouts doesn't mean that was always the case; at one point bamboo was the standard rod material.

I cannot imagine a 10" trout felt much more exciting than it would
on any other, significantly lighter line weight (and likely as stiff) rod, matter of fact I can't imagine it felt like much of anything or bent the rod at all. It wasn't designed for what you did.

Take it bass fishing, and throw poppers on it, like it was intended to be used.


Yea I do need to go find some bass. I don't have much experience with bass though, and am really not sure of a good spot, so first tried fishing a streamer on a farm pond, then went to the trout stream next to the farm pond and caught a trout.

The reason I was thinking it maybe needed a 6 weight line instead of 7 is that it felt like the rod had trouble casting the heavy line. Of course I don't really know what casting a 7 weight bamboo rod should feel like, so that was just a thought.

Posted on: 2013/5/31 15:30


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2006/9/14 20:03
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I don't know if this is a South Bend but it looks similar. The widow next door gave it to my dad when he was going to trade school after WWII. He didn't know how to use it but I taught myself with it 20 years later. Maybe I should take it fishing for old times sake. Kind of like deer hunting with a muzzle loader!

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Posted on: 2013/5/31 19:52
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Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6514
Online
Quote:

jeremymcon wrote:
Quote:

gfen wrote:
Quote:

jeremymcon wrote:
I'm thinking maybe the 7 weight line I put on it was a little heavy for the rod.


Its a South Bend Model 47, their "bass taper" rod. Its a big, heavy affair meant to throw big chunky lures to bass and other large fish. Believe it or not, but people fished for bass back in the '30s and '40s, too, even before Ranger jetboats.

Just because now the only people who use bamboo rods use dainty affairs and cast them to discerning sprung creek trouts doesn't mean that was always the case; at one point bamboo was the standard rod material.

I cannot imagine a 10" trout felt much more exciting than it would
on any other, significantly lighter line weight (and likely as stiff) rod, matter of fact I can't imagine it felt like much of anything or bent the rod at all. It wasn't designed for what you did.

Take it bass fishing, and throw poppers on it, like it was intended to be used.


Yea I do need to go find some bass. I don't have much experience with bass though, and am really not sure of a good spot, so first tried fishing a streamer on a farm pond, then went to the trout stream next to the farm pond and caught a trout.

The reason I was thinking it maybe needed a 6 weight line instead of 7 is that it felt like the rod had trouble casting the heavy line. Of course I don't really know what casting a 7 weight bamboo rod should feel like, so that was just a thought.


It should feel slow. Seriously.

You live in East Pete. You are surrounded by good bass water. Pick a spot, any spot, on the Conestoga or Cocalico.

Posted on: 2013/5/31 21:51


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2008/6/28 15:57
Posts: 738
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Gone4Day, that rod is a late model Horrocks-Ibbotson Majestic.

Montague, H-I. and South Bend were the largest American rod manufacturers in the bamboo era.

It's probably a 6-7 weight rod, in the middle of the H-I lineup in terms of quality.

Go on, try it out. It will be, um, heavy- 5 1/2-6 oz. And you'll need to slow down your casting speed- feel the rod working and wait for the line to bend it on the backcast, which will take around a "one-one thousand" to happen. You may want to try a size heavier line, too. But many of the 9' rods are just not very good- either soggy or broomsticks.

If the ferrules click when it's wiggled and waved, the ferrule glue is dry and the rod may snap. Quick fix- re-melt the glue by heating the metal ferrules with a lighter. Better fix- pull the ferrules, clean the old glue, epoxy them back on. They aren't serrated under the thread, which means you don't need to rewrap them for the rod to work fine.

Most of the H-I rods don't have a great reputation-EXCEPT for the two-piece shorties: the Tonka Prince, Princess and Tonka Queen. All of those rods have a nice crisp action- not by any means "fast" in the graphite sense, but nice sweet casting rods that are lots of fun to catch fish with.


Posted on: 2013/6/1 6:07


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod
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Tonka is a toy truck; Tonkin is the region of SE Asia where the "best" bamboo grows.

Posted on: 2013/6/1 8:59
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Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11384
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If its outside America, then it doesn't matter how its spelt.

Or, one could surmise from the good folks at Horrocks-Ibbotson, who named their rods the Tonka Queen et al.

Fast/moderate/slow refers to where the rod bends on loading, so a "fast" bamboo rod isn't as strange as it sounds. Things are also relative.

Barbless, if he's the name I'm thinking of, no doubt knows this. Some of the rest of you do not.

Anyways, South Bend had three general tapes. "Dry fly" (a 3xx series), "Trout" (or slow, fuller flexing, wet fly optimum rods, the 1xx series) and the bass/steelhead taper (an xx series model number).

Until the cork disintegrated, I loved using a heavy old 9' 359 6wt rod. Outside of its club like weight, it was a surprisingly fun and capable rod.

If anyone has a "trout" taper rod (1xx model) sitting in a closet they don't want, let me know.

Posted on: 2013/6/1 9:24
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
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Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2006/9/16 15:52
From Bucks County
Posts: 624
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You may also find this helpful. Good Luck and enjoy he rod.

http://classicflyrodforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=51465

Posted on: 2013/6/1 13:18
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Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2006/9/12 12:07
From Berryville Virginia
Posts: 329
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Gone4Day,

The Majestic is a Horrocks-Ibbotson (H-I) built in the 1930's and one of their lower end rods with a sheet cork grip. It looks to be a good project rod to refinish and get back on the stream. You can still find the red and the green thread for the wraps.

Joe E

Posted on: 2013/6/3 8:16


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2006/9/14 20:03
Posts: 264
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Thanks everybody for all the information on Horrocks-Ibbotsen. I didn't know anything about fly rods when I was learning to fish with it some 40+ years ago. It's definitely heavy, slow with a noodle action. Made 8" bluegills feel like monsters though! It also made inexpensive fiberglass feel good.

If it was one of the finer examples of an H-I it would be worth a little restoration to put it back in service, but seeing as its one of their cheaper models and not a very good one at that, think I'll just hang on to it for sentimental reasons. It looks cool even if it doesn't cast that well.

Posted on: 2013/6/3 20:10
_________________
That money talks
I won't deny.
I heard it once.
it said, "Goodbye."
Richard Armour


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2012/12/9 15:03
From Lewistown, PA
Posts: 418
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Took the rod out to the cocalico last night. It felt a lot more comfortable to cast the second time out. I was throwing a big wooly bugger and also a closer minnow. Caught a smallmouth bass, a fall fish, and a sunnies, and turned at least one other fish. If I hadn't also been giving casting lessons to my girlfriend, I imagine I could've gotten a few more fish. It ended up being a really handy rod to have, because I had her casting my 6 weight while I was using the 7 weight. If i hadn't had it, either she or I would've been fishing my 4 weight. I think maybe this rod will get some use after all.

Posted on: 2013/6/5 9:27


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2006/9/16 15:52
From Bucks County
Posts: 624
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Quote:

jeremymcon wrote:
Took the rod out to the cocalico last night. It felt a lot more comfortable to cast the second time out. I was throwing a big wooly bugger and also a closer minnow. Caught a smallmouth bass, a fall fish, and a sunnies, and turned at least one other fish. If I hadn't also been giving casting lessons to my girlfriend, I imagine I could've gotten a few more fish. It ended up being a really handy rod to have, because I had her casting my 6 weight while I was using the 7 weight. If i hadn't had it, either she or I would've been fishing my 4 weight. I think maybe this rod will get some use after all.


Awesome! That puts a smile on my face.

Posted on: 2013/6/5 14:42
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Brook Trout are God's way of saying everything is going to be alright.


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2013/6/24 0:53
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I would like to reply on this Southbend topic.
I hear many people putting down Southbend rods all the time.
Half the time I don't think they have a clue on what they are all talking about.
I would agree that a few Southbend rods are cheaply made.But,I would go as far as saying Southbends are all junk as most I hear do.

Let's take a Orvis rod for an example.The only thing a Orvis rod has going for it is the Impregnated process.Other then that nothing more unless we include the rare super z ferrules that's rarely found on Orvis rods anymore. cheap aluminum reel seats,same color wraps and no tipping what so ever.With about the same winding checks that's found on Montague's and H-I's.

With Southbend rods they offer solid bamboo and many varurations of color/style wraps and tipping as including jaspers. And stayed with the same ferrules thru out the yrs.I see not a thing wrong with a example #290.
Let me ask you all how you feel about Heddon rods?Most would say great rods as the example #35,#20 or the #17 & others example.
Compare Heddon's to Southbends ?Most will say no compare correct?
Do you know the history of the South bend rod company?
Did you know that during WWII while the dollar started to tumble from war. Southbend found a better bamboo to work with.Less knots and stems.During that time all rod companies was tumbling with poor sales as employees went to join to fight of war.Yes,it's true Southbend decided to build with cheaper hardware to attempt to gain sales.Bad idea I agree and Southbend would agree today if they was still in business today.After WWII SouthBend went out of business from lack of sales.Take a wild guess you all bought out Southbend's bamboo?Wright & McGill & Heddon did that's who.
Get a copy of Michael Sinclair's yellow rod restoration hand book and read up what this man stated in his book.You will find this information as i stated.

So,for all you Heddon and Wright & McGill lovers,little you all know your fishing with a Southbend and don't even know it!
What do you all think rod companies did during WWII for business?Think about it for a moment?Who do you think built those Orvis's,Leonard's,Payne's,Heddon's,Granger's,W/M and so on while us men was fighting war?Women!During that period of time "War" and after rods wouldn't sell if men found women built those rods.During that time/era that's how it was.
Example, Varney rods and tapers you may as well say Varney's wife's rods & tapers example.

What I don't understand is Orvis rods.There's a book to buy for every brand rod but, Orvis.

I hear people all the time stating that all Orvis rods are serial numbered.Where do they all get that information from I ask?Sure not from any book that's for sure.There's a website database created by a man names Dave???? about Heddon's rods.And Michael Sinclair created a hand book about Heddon's rods.I see a man named Greg??? created a database about Orvis rods.No book was ever created todate for Orvis rods to identify them.
Keep in mind,
That gregsmyfair??????? database website only indicates rods that have been reported by owners.That database does not hold every rod Orvis ever made.Ask any top collector they will agree.
Even on Greg's database show's rods "Not Numbered" have a look and see for your self.Also,look at the last time that database was updated.If I recall 2005 or 2006 was that last update I could be wrong give or take two or so yrs.Orvis made mas production as the same with Southbend and many other rod companies.As student rods,rod kits,Test rods.Few was serial numbered and if so was lettered not numbered.
I told this story many times to people,
A few yrs ago I inquired a Orvis Battenkill rod.The reel seat was smashed by a car tire running it over.I contacted orvis on the phone asking if I can order a replacement reel seat for it and how much will it cost.Orvis agent replied to me stating Orvis does not sell reel seats to customers.Requires sending the complete rod into Orvis for repair.My point in this story is,
If you can't buy a reel seat from Orvis. How in the world would one inquire a rod blank from Orvis.If their not giving out their reel seats then,their sure not giving their rod blanks other then buying a rod kit.I see so many sellers selling custom rods built from a Orvis rod blank.Copying a Orvis taper isn't the same as a original Orvis blank.And in fact,wouldn't that copy taper blank be a fake Orvis blank or how am I rod on this thinking?Copy/fake?What's the difference?There is none!Many websites as Clark's and many others are giving out taper exchange.I feel this is where all the fake rods has started is from these taper exchange websites.Taper exchange should not be allowed.I hear people saying I want a rod with a Payne taper example.Well,go buy from Payne no reason to build a copy/fake.This bamboo world is corrupted by builders coping rods and tapers for profit.In fact,if a true collector was seeking to buy a Original vintage rod.They sure wouldn't be looking at 7-8 ft rods.During the vintage era 7-8 ft rods was frowned upon and never was.So,many people are cutting rods down for profit ripping the buyers off for gain. 9 ft or above would be the best buy for originality.

Posted on: 2013/6/26 1:30


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

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2006/9/12 12:07
From Berryville Virginia
Posts: 329
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I don’t really know where to start but with that said I’ll dive in: There is a difference for me at least when it comes to cheap and lower end rods. Cheap for me is bad craftsmanship and subpar bamboo used to make the rod. Lower end is good quality bamboo, node spacing, taper design and good craftsmanship (no glue line) with low end components (big difference). To me junk is a tomato stake and if you want to design your own tapers you will end up with enough for everyone in town.

I think Orvis had a lot more going for them than just the impregnated process. While I’ve cast tons of Orvis rods I like their longer rods. Whitey was a super nice guy and very helpful when I talked to him about bamboo. As far as tipped wraps and aluminum reel seats that is just cosmetic to me it has nothing to do with the feel of the rod period. Now if you are taking them to a beauty contest then cosmetics count. I agree you need a good set of ferrules but they don’t have to be Super Z’s.

All bamboo rods are solid built unless you want to talk about double built or hollow or fluted each have advantages and have nothing to do with being cheap or quality. The War hurt more than just the bamboo rod companies and materials were hard to find. Unfortunately a lot of them were just rod makers and not businessmen.

It was common during the time if a rod maker went out of business that someone would buy out their stock and finish out the rods. Trade rods we big at the time as well and more were blue collar cane finished out and sold under multiple name brands.

A good rod is a good rod built by a man or women I don’t understand your point. Women were running most of the industries and the men were fighting in the war?? There are several women makers today and they are making excellent rods.

I’ve seen several books on the history of Orvis. Why bust on Greg with the Orvis data base I think it is awesome. If you call Orvis they will let you know who built the rod and when it was made. Greg is keeping a data base.

You can buy Orvis reel seats. Now if you want one to replace an older Orvis that they don’t have in stock they will not sell you one. But I know when Whitey (Ron White) was there he probably would replace it with the correct one and only charged you minimal dollars for the reel seat and repair he was a good guy IMO.

I don’t believe you can buy Orvis Bamboo blanks or Kits any more you can only buy finished rods. Hey that is up to them and some makers today will not sale blanks.

We can talk tapers all day. But forget about this fake thing you have going. Most makes will say the taper is based on X maker. If the Maker is still alive most of today’s makers will not use/make/post that taper out of respect. Most cannot afford an original from Makers like Payne, Garrison, Gillum, Dickerson and Carlson...etc. but want they can afford is a rod from a maker that has work and apprenticed under one of the older maker.

I’ve casted some tapers that were better than the original so I won’t knock them for smoothing out an original taper because it is not sold as an original only based on a taper. If I was a collector yes I would want an original but I’m not, I make a rod to fish. I don’t understand your cutting rods down for profit unless you are talking about banty rods made from the mid and tip section. If someone wants a short rod buy a short rod that is designed to be a rod under 6’.

I hope this helps, I don’t think bamboo lovers bust on any rod they just like some more than others. I find them all interesting even the tomato stakes.

Joe E

Posted on: 2013/6/26 8:23


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2013/6/24 0:53
From United States
Posts: 5
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To:JoeE,
Today's fishing it's just a sport or to collect.As vintage rods.Those rods was built for their time.During that time it wasn't a sport it was a living.Far back as the late 1900's longer was a wanted rod.Today you can't give one away that's how much a longer rod is not wanted today.
Last yr or so,I inquired a 12 ft ,1900's era Hardy rod.I thought I had the holy grail of a Hardy.This rod was mint condition with original case and extra tip & ferrule caps.I was told that Hardy in England will buy .So,I call Hardy in England.They told me they only want to buy Hardy's that's 9 ft or under.Just shows how corrupted this rod collecting is today.Hardy don't want their own rods longer then 9 ft.When a true collector seeks to buy a original vintage rod they know to seek longer not shorter.
Example,
If your a rod builder making a living building,restoration or repair.
Let's say you inquire a 12 ft vintage Hardy rod.You don't want the rod and no one wants to buy the rod because,it's 12 ft long.To sell it what do you do?Cut it down to a 8 ft rod sells every time.Builders know where and how to cut a rod down for profit/gain and they do just that.Same example on a Heddon #17,a 9 1/2 ft #17 will sell for $200-$250 if your lucky.But,a 7' or 8' will sell for $1000 plus.Builders know where to cut to balance the weight as we all know Heddon rods go by weight of the rod same as W/M rods do.Not every buyer knows about tapers and nodes.
I say this,
Who's to blame for this corruption of cut,fake rods?The answer is anyone that's giving out the information/tools to do so.
There is no reason for fly rod websites to have the Taper Exchange.A true builder knows if he inquires a taper for a Heddon's #35 Deluxe.It can be cloned using Southbend's bamboo.As Southbend and Heddon's rods are the same cane.Same as a Wright & McGill other then carving a swell at the check.Here we have Michael Sinclair that most treat like a god of builders explaining how to make a cork grip look vintage by using coffee grounds or tea bags.Why did Michael Sinclair explain this in his yellow book?Why would one want to make a cork grip look vintage?To pass it off as vintage?Why?the answer is for re-sale.No other reason for it.So,I hold Michael Sinclair at fault for this rod corruption as well as Clark's and others I'm not stating.
Until this taper exchange is stopped.There's no end for builders.Has anyone gave it any thought why Orvis hasn't offered a book to identify their rods?Because,they don't want their rod copy/rights cloned is why.The Greg's online Orvis database isn't completed and rarely updated.Those are reported rods by Orvis rod owners giving that information to that site.Dave's Heddon's online database is the same way reported rods only not a datasheet from orvis or Heddon for fact.
Back to Southbend rods,
Cheap hardware and low end rods you say?I would differ that idea thought for sure in many ways.Depends on what era for one.
The two dot or three dot rods and the bamboo alone.I'm sure we all know where bamboo was imported from.Enough said.
I feel the cheapest rods are H-I s and Montague s.Cracked ferrules every time.Poor glue as well.Can't say that about a Southbend rod for sure.
enough said for now.Best,

Posted on: 2013/6/28 3:28


Re: Old South Bend bamboo fly rod

Joined:
2013/6/24 0:53
From United States
Posts: 5
Offline
You not getting the point in this venting here.I'm just venting is all.
I'm not putting women down at all and I agree as well.
During WWII women was working making shells/ammo while men was off fighting the war.The women that wasn't was working in factory's and other to feed their families while the husbands was off at war fighting.For men to send money home to their wifes and children was pony express not priority mail as today.
40% of men was force to go to battle wasn't a option to do so.
When the rod company buiders/employees went to war the wifes stepped in to complete as hold the fort for the rod companies.

That is where we get the women builders today and where it started.

During that time/era. Womens rights wasn't in affect as is now.
A rod built by a woman was frowned upon and would not sell.That's why so many rod companies to a fall."Sales".
During that time/era.

Posted on: 2013/6/28 3:57



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