Nymphing Leaders?

[thebassman]

Hey,

I just have a quick question and was wondering what you guys thought. Do you guys use sinking leaders or just put weight on your floro/mono leader when you are going to nymph? I am pretty sure that most streams I am fishing I can get by with using some sort of shot or weight putty, but was wondering what scenarios called for a sinking leader/fly line.

Steven

 

[jayL]

Use weight. A sinking leader will cause godawful drag. It's perfect for swinging, but you want dead drifts when nymphing.

I never use tapered leaders for nymphing, but you'll do fine to use them for now. We can address that one once you get the basic concepts down. The basic idea is that a tapered leader doesn't sink in a uniform fashion, and the fatter part of the leader is in the heavier surface currents. Both of these issues cause drag and prevent your flies from sinking as efficiently as possible, but it's not really something you need to worry about as a beginner imo.

 

[RowJimmy]

I've recently started using 3ft of 15lb mono, 2ft of 10lb mono, poly indicator, tippet ring, 4-5ft 5x fluro. works pretty good. High stick to keep small amount of tension on the line above indicator, once the indicator comes to straight in front of you lower rod tip and mend accordingly. I cant emphasize this next part enough with my clients who for some reason dont wanna hear it no matter how many times I say it. Cast upstream to cover as much water as possible before the indicator comes inline with you. This allows your flies time to sink and find the bottom.

 

[gfen]

I still won't nymph fish, but that's very concise and well presented. It almost makes me want to try.

Almost.

So, you move the poly indicator up and down the upper portion, and always keep your flies 4-5' from it, or do you clip off as needed from teh tippet end?

 

[RowJimmy]

I keep it about a foot above the tippet ring at all times. If the run I'm fishing is deeper then 5 ft I add more tippet. I just started fishing this set up in April after attending a euro nymphing clinic by George Daniel and it has really changed things for me.

 

[gfen]

So you will shorten the tippet portion, or you never really go below that 4-5' range?

How well does the average guide client pick up on it?

 

[RowJimmy]

4-5 ft is the standard starting point I use. I never tried anything shorter and the only place I fished more then 5ft long has been on the Upper Delaware.

It can be picked pretty quick 2-3 hours for a complete novice. 20 minutes for someone thats been around the block a bit. Again the most important part IMO is to cover as much water as possible with the indicator above you in the drift. Not saying you won't catch fish below you because you certainly will, the up stream part is just a bit more important.

 

[jdaddy]

RowJimmy wrote:
I've recently started using 3ft of 15lb mono, 2ft of 10lb mono, poly indicator, tippet ring, 4-5ft 5x fluro. works pretty good. High stick to keep small amount of tension on the line above indicator, once the indicator comes to straight in front of you lower rod tip and mend accordingly. I cant emphasize this next part enough with my clients who for some reason dont wanna hear it no matter how many times I say it. Cast upstream to cover as much water as possible before the indicator comes inline with you. This allows your flies time to sink and find the bottom.

Ya, that's about right.

My set up is very similar. 3 - 4' of the butt of an extruded leader. Just because its now noted to my line due to yet another failed loop. Nymphing it is always out of the water or above the indication point. From there I should put a ring but currently have stepped down Maxima of 2'. Then matching 2' of red amnesia. I am playing with the Rio Kahuna indicators on the red amnesia section for further drift detection. From there length of 3 or 4 x depended upon need.

 

[gfen]

I decided tippet rings were an unneccessary annoyance, and I believe I've lost mroe trying to tie them on and dropping them than I've successfully used.

I'd like to buy other sizes of amnesia, perhaps even the green version, to take the place in the leaderbutt section, but I think if I'm allowed to fish next year its back to singapore twist leaders.

 

[jdaddy]

gfen wrote:

I decided tippet rings were an unneccessary annoyance, and I believe I've lost mroe trying to tie them on and dropping them than I've successfully used.

I'd like to buy other sizes of amnesia, perhaps even the green version, to take the place in the leaderbutt section, but I think if I'm allowed to fish next year its back to singapore twist leaders.

I'll give you all you'll need. No point in buying spools to sit around.

 

[gfen]

i acknowledge awesome ability to see leader twitch when fishign subsurface is helpful. currently using 8-10" 20# amnesia after about 6-8" of 20# maximima and before 8-10" of 15# maxima, if i remember proportions rightish. would think extending that 24" of 20/15/12# amnesia would be most helpful.

option 2 is to twist entire butt from bright yellow suffix mono. 4-5' of leader butt, decreasing sizes of tippet to fly from there.

 

[jayL]

+1 on not seeing the appeal of tippet rings. Blood knots are neat.

 

[gfen]

The possible exception of points to tie on droppers is the exception, because somehow I don't trust the cinch knot around the leader.

 

[jdaddy]

jayL wrote:
+1 on not seeing the appeal of tippet rings. Blood knots are neat.

In this application it would be to preserve the length of the butt that I have nail knoted and glued onto my line.

 

[trowpa]

jdaddy wrote:

jayL wrote:
+1 on not seeing the appeal of tippet rings. Blood knots are neat.

In this application it would be to preserve the length of the butt that I have nail knoted and glued onto my line.

+1 on this. I have to retie often enough that using a tippet ring saves me from replacing the butt section of my leader. Blood knots are indeed neat. But after you retie a half dozen times, you are left with a foot long butt section

Of course - this wouldn't be nearly the problem if i wasn't such a comedy of errors on the stream:

1. Snag on rock
2. Tippet breaks or fly dislodges - leader flies back into brush or at best causing a tangle
3. Retie
4. repeat.

 

[jdaddy]

trowpa wrote:

jdaddy wrote:

jayL wrote:
+1 on not seeing the appeal of tippet rings. Blood knots are neat.

In this application it would be to preserve the length of the butt that I have nail knoted and glued onto my line.

+1 on this. I have to retie often enough that using a tippet ring saves me from replacing the butt section of my leader. Blood knots are indeed neat. But after you retie a half dozen times, you are left with a foot long butt section

Of course - this wouldn't be nearly the problem if i wasn't such a comedy of errors on the stream:

1. Snag on rock
2. Tippet breaks or fly dislodges - leader flies back into brush or at best causing a tangle
3. Retie
4. repeat.

Wetnet?

 

[jayL]

I use two nymphing leaders, and neither one has that problem.

1: 3-6ft mono furled leader -> a few feet of 2-3x to terminal tippet of 3-5x.

In this situation, when the 2-3x midsection gets too short, I just blood knot more 2 or 3x to it. Problem solved. For depth adjustment, shortening takes one blood knot and lengthening takes two. I'm out of commission for 2 minutes, max.

2: 2-3 ft amnesia -> 3-6ft 2-3x -> terminal.

Same situation. When the midsection gets too low, I just blood knot more to it.

For the furled leader, I put a few pieces of strike putty down the furled leader. I suspect this performs very similarly to jimmy's system, and it's my standard for shallow or calm water.

For the other leader, I either eurotrash nymph or put a thingamabobber on the amnesia.

The taper between 2-3x midsection and terminal is negligible.

 

[gfen]

Tropwa competition angler?!

Vaguely on drifted but not jacked topic, I find that my whipped loops on fly lines always crack where the thread meets the line. How you people deal with this? Well, Jay, at least, who does it that way. Trowpa and Jdaddy are immune from question as leet comp angling machines.

 

[jayL]

I cut it and tie a new one. It happens maybe twice a year on a given line. Zipcast helps by keeping it soft and supple.

 

[thebassman]

When it comes to weights.....you guys prefer small shot, or the weight putty...???