Leader tying

[chstrcntyfish]

I have been buying the orvis superstrong knotless leaders in 5x and just adding 6 and 7x if needed, but they are too expensive for a 9 foot piece of mono... I want to just tie some basic 9 foot leaders. I have heard about leader calc and other formula sources. I have a "leader tying vice"(or is it vise?) It's just one of those little things that makes tying blood knots really easy. Anyway, what do I use to tie them? Do you use a bunch of different size tippets or is there "special" line to use? I want to know because I'm going to cabelas tomorrow with a friend, even though I was just there two days ago...

 

[pete41]

Buy cheap knotless leaders at Walmart,K-mart or anywhere else-straighten them by running between folded rubber
tie on quality tippet material as tippet-just make sure it is smaller than end of leader.
Blood knots are duck soup with practice.five wraps and ends going opposite ways[always moisten] but you can get away with overhand knot in leader end-put tippet through knot-close overhand knot almost completely-wrap tippet[5 wraps ,pull tight[moistened ]and make sure overhand knot is tight.
seldom used anymore but it works
the half blood knot.

 

[Padraic]

First off, I wouldn't tye leaders until your casting is down. This is your first year right? If you aren't getting windknots anymore, I want to know who taught you to cast! The down side of hand tied leaders is that when you get a wind knot, that's it. There's no untangling it. With a knotless, you might be able to pull it free once or twice.

That said, I your under absolutely no obligation to take advice from anyone. So to answer your question...

I like to tie up dry fly leaders 60% maxima chameleon and 40% orvis superstrong. That's to say, the butt section and down to just past the mid point should be maxima chameleon. It's heavy, stiff stuff. It should turn over like a jack hammer for ya. The rest, I like to use Orvis superstrong. It's a consistency I like. It's sort of a midpoint in the continuum of limp to stiff.

For nymphing or streamer leaders you can tie in more maxima. That might help with the "chuck and duck" of a heavy fly.

So if you get the tippets in the diameters specified in leader calc for the leaders you want to tie, and you have that blood knot tool you're good to go.

Oh, and I always tie my leaders down omitting the final tippet. That's to say, if I wanted a 9' 5x leader, I'd leave the 5x off. And then I would end with a perfection loop. When I get to the stream, I would pull off the appropriate amount of 5x to finish the leader, put a perfection loop in that and do a loop to loop connection. When that tippet got a little short, I'd swap it out. (Stow your waste mono in a pocket or ziplock bag) I always considered that last piece of the leader the tippet.

And if it gets tough to do the blood knots with the really light mono... use a surgeon's knot. It's plenty strong, and only kinks the line a little.

 

[Padraic]

Some might disagree with me on the Maxima chameleon. It is a heavy, dark brown tippet. (I've never seen an issue, but I fish freestoners. Guys who fish Limestone streams get a little more wound up. But IMHO, it's all about the drag.) If you want a "stealthier" leader, try tying with all Orvis superstrong (or whatever tippet you like). If you want to mix regular mono (like for spinning gear) with your tippet go for it.

I remember hearing though, that flyfishing tippets are half the diameter for tensile strength as regular fishing mono. So watch the diameters, is all. For a butt section, it shouldn't matter. In fact, some monos are supposed to be high vis out of the water and low vis in it. I'd think that would be nice for a nymphing leader. Although I imagine the line would still pick up enough light to glow down a few inches, so use with caution.

My own trick for nymphing is just to put a touch of strike putty on two knots. It's easy to see the bottom putty twitch in relation to the one above it. And casting is easier without a huge blob on your leader.

 

[chstrcntyfish]

Thanks for the help. I've heard that alot on here about untangling knotted leaders, but the problem is that if I can't untangle a knotless one, it's two dollars down the drain. If I tie my own, I can make another. No matter what it costs to make one, it saves going to the fly shop. I want to at least try a knotted one to see.

 

[Padraic]

Yeah, that's what got me into fly tying... Good luck with the fishing bug! It's got you bad, my friend! :-D

 

[Acristickid]

chester- I agree with what has been said. Pad's advice is what I am coming to understand. I will say pete is right too. If you can find cheap knotless leaders you probably cant build them much cheaper your self. Try places like cabelas bargin cave or sierratradingpost. I have seen them on there for .49- plus the shipping of course- maybe wait to buy something else along with them.

I bought a leader buliding kit- Maxima Chameleon

You should notice a difference with the Maxima vs knotless because the maxima is so stiff it is easy to mend your leader.

Probably wont have to mess with the top 3 or so leader connections since the Maxima is very durable and long lasting.

Using the leader tool thingy makes it easy to tie'em up at home!

 

[chstrcntyfish]

I was looking at the leadercalc formulas and then at the maxima tippets online so I know what sizes to get tomorrow. Problem- I can't find the diameters for the different maxima sizes. If I wanted a butt section of 0.016" What size maxima would I use?

 

[Acristickid]

Maxima will list the size in diameter on the spools so take some sample formulas with you to reference. Also, if going to a shop they should be able to help.

Here is a standard formula I have used

9ft 5x lets say

.020 36 inches
.017 24
.013 12
.010 8
.008 6
.006 22 (5x)

the tippet piece (you can buy these in large mono rolls cheaper in walmart etc...) unless I is too much hassel then stick to convenient common tippet spools

It might also be said that since each section is a different size diameter that it will lay the fly out better too-

I guess one downside is that the blood knots can pick up algae/weeds- not too big a problem for me.

Not sure if the kits are cheaper- come with most common sizes. I know they have them at anglersupplyhouse.com and flyfishersparadise.com I also believe you can get maxima at gander mountain or bass pro. Good luck

 

[chstrcntyfish]

ok thanks. I'm just going to write down the sizes I need and check the spools.

 

[chstrcntyfish]

Actually, I think I'm just going to buy the maxima kit because its cheaper and it comes with all of the sizes I could need.

 

[ian_brown]

I'm interested in trying this too. Cabelas sells two Maxima kits; one contains 1 to 25 lb spools, the other has 3 - 40 lb spools. I assume the lighter one would be better for trout leaders, but I can't see a use for 1 lb Chameleon.

Also, would it make sense to treat the knots on a hand tied leader with UV Knotsense to make the leaders easier to untangle, or is this overkill?

 

[flyfishermanj]

Here's a question for you leader tyers, How much does it cost you to tie a leader? Just one leader if you could break it down. I currently get SA's 333 9' knotless leaders for a $1.50 apiece. I'm interested in tying my owe, but as long as I keep getting a discount on them I'm gonna wait.

JH

 

[Acristickid]

I am not that meticulous of a person where I would analyze the cost break down of leader tying. Maybe the same or a little cheaper if you consider gas or shipping costs plus the convenience of tying'em up where/when you wanted. Not to mention making customized leaders to serve specific purposes.

Even if the knotless ones were a quarter cheaper I like the way the maxima leaders work so I would continue fishing with those.

I could see a benefit to using knotless in really weedy streams.

Knotless for nymphing may sink faster- I don't know??

A question I have is how long is the shelf life of this maxima?

I use the larger diameters up much faster since you just use more of that material while the taper spools still have a lot of material on them.

 

[Padraic]

I would agree with Acristikid. The hand tied leaders I make work so much better, I'd rather use them. And the convenience of making one, rather than running to the store for another, etc.

If you want a real bargain in leader materials. Do what Maurice does. He roots around the parking lots and pull offs in the the special regs areas until he finds a leader or two and uses them.

 

[chstrcntyfish]

I just got back from cabelas. They didn't have the maxima kit, so I ended up just getting the umpqua leader tying kit. It is just 14 spools from 0.21'' down to 7x. I don't know anything about this tippet but I figured no matter what, the custom leaders would still be better than the knotless ones. I have read so much about how much better knotted leaders are.

 

[dryflyguy]

I used the knotless leaders for about my first 5 years of flyfishing, and thought they were fine. Then, a buddy let me try one of his own knotted ones - much nicer presentation.
I then started tying my own.
It's kinda like fly tying though - you'll have to shell out some money at first to get everything you need.
But over years, I still think you save money in the long run by tying your own.
I started tying the Orvis Hy-Flote leaders these last couple years, and had to spend about $30 getting the right lines for that. But a buddy of mine split the cost with me, and we share it, giving it back and forth to each other as we each need new leaders. I usually only need to tie them once a year

 

[bigjohn58]

You will never see me use anything labled tippet or has an X to lable the size. Tippet and all mono sized with X (4x 5x 6x etc) is just over priced and not worth the money. I just use basic mono or florocarbon for everything especially nymphing. My leaders from the fly line are like 18" of 20 pound test Berkley XT then 18" of 12 pound Berkley XT then 18" of 8 pound Berkley XT, then like 18" of 6 pound Berkley Vanish, then start my nymphs with 4 pound Berkley Vanish. Nail Knot from the fly line to the 20 pound XT and then blood knots with everything after that. I can tye a blood knot in like 20 seconds if even that long. Once you get the hang of it its easy. If water is high and muddy I'll stick with 6 pound Vanish if its very low and clear 2 pound Vanish. I get the 100 yard spools of Berkley Vanish for like $4. As often as I change flies and stuff I'd go through tippet and those tapered leaders like there's no tomorrow. This is by far the most effective and cheapest way I've found to make my leaders.

 

[chstrcntyfish]

Just finished my first leader. It looks good, except its a little short just because I didn't measure enough extra for each knot. Also, My set is missing two sizes. I didn't need them though. It came with two doubles instead.

Padraic, I really like the idea of using loop to loop connections for the last size tippet. That solves one of my biggest problems. Normally, when I cut off the used piece of tippet and tie on a new piece, the tapered leader keeps getting shorter and shorter. Now my leader will stay the same size no matter how many times I replace the tippet

 

[dryflyguy]

bigjohn:

Good point.
The leader formula I use now, calls for 36" of hyflote butt section, then the rest is stren low vis. Best dryfly leader I've ever used