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Re: LL Bean Warranty

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13662
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Quote:
I have a chunk of steel.......steel is steel.......it's all the same...right?!


Yep, very similar situation to steel.

Depends on your usage. But for a lot of applications, yes, steel is steel. If you have a steel bar to bust up the ice on your driveway, you don't really care whether it has a tensile strength of 80 or 300 ksi. Cause you're gonna use less than 1. And both will last equally long because rust, not strength, is what's gonna limit the lifespan.

That's why 95% of the steel volume is still in regular old steel like they made in 1900, at like <$2/lb. It's not that those customers didn't examine whether the newer fangled alloys would work better for them. Major corporations tends to investigate ANYTHING that will lower their cost in the long run. They have examined it, and determined that the cheap stuff gets them the most bang for the buck. Instead of getting a $10/lb alloy that will last twice as long, they can get a $2/lb alloy and replace it once and be better off.

The other 5% of customers have more unique applications that require specialized properties to do what they do. And there exist several thousand different alloys to fit their needs. Still, for say, a fuel injection application, a $5/lb ferritic grade will perform better than a $40/lb Ni based grade designed for high temperature use in jet engines. Higher performance does tend to cost more, but it's not as simple as saying higher price = better. Better for what?

Posted on: 3/8 13:33


Re: LL Bean Warranty

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13662
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There are vast differences between the breathability of wader material.


I'm sure you could find a difference with proper measuring devices. But for all intents and purposes, no. All of the breathable materials on the market these days are excellent.

Quote:
As well, one must consider durability measured in abrasion resistance as well as puncture resistance of the material used in waders.


Function of the surface coat and thickness, not the breathable layer. But I'll admit that's usually packaged with the breathable layer as a complete fabric. This is probably the real difference between Gore Tex, Dry Plus, and all the others.

And again, I am indeed taking longevity into account. If you pay twice as much for a thicker layer, and it only lasts 1.5x as long, it wasn't worth it.

Quote:
Also some waders have seams that sewn and taped while others are welded.


Realistically the biggest difference between waders is in durability of the fabric and the seams. I am taking into account durability. Nonetheless, see above. If you pay twice as much for seams and workmanship that will last 1.5x as long, it wasn't worth it.

It's not measured purely in hours of useful life. It's measured in dollars per hour of useful life.

Quote:
What about DWR (durable water repellent) which one is used, how is it applied, surface or using Chemical Vapor Deposition (CVD) machinery? How effective is it new and how long will it last?


There are differences but the best won't go much beyond a year or two. To maximize life of any of them, you have to re-apply yourself.

Quote:
How about features, like pockets where you want them, waterproof compartments, zippers, waders that fold down to waist-highs for the warm weather, etc.?


This is me personally, not you. But everyone puts pockets in the chest. Chest pockets are nearly useless for me. The zipper is kinda cool, but I won't pay an extra $100 to make it slightly easier to take a leak. I'd rather spend the extra 30 seconds.

I do like waders that convert easily. For what it's worth, the best pair I ever owned in this regard was a $75 pair of Hodgeman's, the the Orvis Silver Labels were nice as well. Nearly identical design. The Hodgeman's were a bit thinner which made the fold down a little easier.

Posted on: 3/8 13:43


Re: LL Bean Warranty

Joined:
2010/4/18 14:05
From pennsylvania
Posts: 465
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pcray1231 wrote:

...I'm sure you could find a difference with proper measuring devices...


2013 Breathable Wader Shootout.
Check out the tests. And the results.

http://www.yellowstoneangler.com/inde ... n-aquaz-cabelas-bootfoots

Posted on: 3/8 18:09
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Re: LL Bean Warranty

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13662
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Thanks,

That's as good a test of breathability as you're ever going to find.

They tested a bunch, though I wish they would have tested more lower priced stuff. And yes, there are some differences, but overall, most of them look pretty good in terms of breathability.

Things start feeling sticky when you approach the dewpoint, i.e. the relative humidity near 100%. Most of us aren't gonna tell much difference between 50% and 80% humidity, though. 80% feels pretty dry, and wet skin will dry quickly in such conditions. Typically in PA summers, the outside humidity is >80%. So it's nearly the equivalent of not wearing waders at all. Realistically, what they should have measured was the difference in humidity between inside and outside the waders, but that's nit picking.

Start getting above 90% and things get stickier, fast, just as it does when outside humidity gets up in that range.

I'll put the most stock in the treadmill ones, i.e. while you're exerting yourself and sweating, and would consider it mostly a pass/fail test. There are exactly 3, out of 13, that IMO failed the breathability test. The Red Balls (which don't advertise being breathable), the William Joseph WST (which probably failed breathability tests due to an inflatable air bladder for safety), and the Aquaz Dry Zip (which I had never even heard of). Note that the last two aren't cheap waders by any means. IMO, the other 10 all passed the breathability test just fine. And that includes the Redington Crosswaters which came in at $100 with <80% humidity even while on the treadmill.

i.e. while yes, some are a little better than others, all of the mainstream breathables are indeed breathable and pretty dang good even when exerting yourself. Stay away from Aquaz brand, and special features like an inflatable air bladder aren't conducive to breathability either.

And they correctly point out that what you're wearing underneath is far more important than the differences in breathability between most of these waders.

Posted on: 3/10 9:37



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