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Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2013/7/30 17:16
From Fairborn, OH
Posts: 308
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Heh - not a bad plan, at least to give one a try for less that the cost of gas to get to my fishing spot.

Posted on: 2013/11/3 20:01


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2012/8/7 11:26
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Going back the original question, the best dry fly rods out there IMO are:
- Loomis NRX LP
- Sage Circa
- Winston B3x
- Scott G2 (I haven't cast the Radian in a 4wt)

All are best in an 8'6" or similar size.

All will vary slightly in style, but they are very high performance rods.

The Hardy Zenith is also a nice, more all-around, option, but I find it a tad fast for dries.

RE: The WinstonB3 LS - it is a nice rod (the next gen of the B2t), but it requires a slow(er) casting stroke.

Posted on: 2013/11/6 7:25


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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From Hunker
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I just lived your similar scenario trying to make my mind up on a dry rod, I was between the Superfine Touch and the Helios 2 by Orvis, and everyone and there mother except a few was for the H2, but the H2 is abit stiffer (faster action) than the Superfine and can cast farther not to mention all my rods are fast action and I wanted a delicate Full Flex rod. I got the superfine and it arrived last week, a 4weight and it casts great and lands drys deliactely even with a WF line, best rod IMO for dries. I've tested it for a week now and it hasn't disappointed. But always test it before you buy it... Also, if you get an Orvis rod , you can hang on to it for 30 days, and if you don't like it you can send it back for something different.

Posted on: 2013/11/6 11:37
_________________
"Ours is the grandest sport. It is an intriguing battle of wits between an angler and a trout; and in addition to appreciating the tradition and grace of the game, we play it in the magnificent out-of-doors."
~ Ernest G. Schwiebert, Jr.


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2013/9/6 11:40
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Six-Gun, if the streams you fish are big , than a 9ft would seem right, but if your fishing smaller streams, give a shorter rod a try and you just might never look at a 9ft the same..

Posted on: 2013/11/6 11:42
_________________
"Ours is the grandest sport. It is an intriguing battle of wits between an angler and a trout; and in addition to appreciating the tradition and grace of the game, we play it in the magnificent out-of-doors."
~ Ernest G. Schwiebert, Jr.


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Quote:
Buy a used one at a garage sale for $10. After you decide you hate it, you've only invested $10 instead of $1000.


^^^Sure way to ensure you'll hate it.^^^

I could just as easily say to buy the Snoopy rod from Walmart and try it out to see if you like graphite, no?

Seriously, though, it's true in all rods, but especially bamboo and glass, that you can occasionally find some sweet sticks for dirt cheap, or you can spend a lot on a rod and find out you don't like it. There's a correlation between price and quality, but it's nowhere near a perfect one.

Nomatter what material you choose, TRY IT FIRST.

While I'm mainly a graphite guy I do have a good bamboo rod that I like very much and, for me, fits the very niche you are after. It's not my small stream, brush busting rod. It's not my best streamer tossing or high stick nymphing rod either (though it has done these). But when chasing hatches on medium to large (by PA standards) waters, when I expect to be tossing dries, it's my go-to. It's medium-fast by graphite standards, which is "fast" for boo. It throws a fair bit of line well, though if you're really trying to stretch your distance casting abilities it does fall short of a good, fast graphite rod. But at normal fishing distances it feels great, and I think it's a bit more accurate than equivalent graphite rods.

The one thing with boo that took some getting used to was the weight. Mine is a 8 ft 5 wt. 8 ft is LONG for a boo. And it is heavy. When I first started using it, my arm got tired quickly. But I quickly realized that a heavy rod needs a heavy reel to balance. Modern reels are made for graphite. It's not the overall weight, it's that a front heavy rod has a lot of momentum which you're constantly fighting against in the course of casting. When I added lead to the reel to bring the balance point back towards my hand, it helped a lot.

Posted on: 2013/11/6 13:32


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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From Fairborn, OH
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Great inputs all around. Thanks to all of your for your replies. The more I look at it, the more I may have to suck up a 3-hour drive to California to hit a dealer that has enough in-store options in what I'm asking about to actually cast in-person. There's simply nowhere near here to do this and I guess I have to look at the gas burned as an otherwise cheap insurance policy to ensure that I like what I ultimately buy.

Based on what I've read, I'd like to clarify a few things:

Tridentfly:
The Circa is one of my original considerations. However, I see on your site that you call it a fast action, but Sage is referring to it as a "modern slow-action." Do you consider this a faster action rod than Sage is advertising or is that a simple misprint?

Also, I notice that some of the choices folks are suggesting are more reflective of faster action trends in graphite rods. This is where my ignorance comes into play. Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup. Is that not a good rule to follow anymore/old timer talk? In other words, can a modern fast action rod serve just as well for great presentation as an older-style slow action?

LetortAngler:
To clarify my rod length choice, I have backed off of my original requirement that the rod be closer to the 9' range. The more I think about, the more insane I think I am for wanting a rod that long given the streams that I fish. I constantly find myself needing less by way of casting distance and more by way of NOT getting hung up in trees and tall shrubs along the creek bank. This is why a few folks have noted that I make a lot of use of my 6' and 7' light lineweight rods in my fishing reports. I'm looking more and more likely to get a 8' or even 7'6" if the option is there.

Posted on: 2013/11/6 21:36


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2007/4/8 20:43
From SEPA
Posts: 11285
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Quote:

Six-Gun wrote:
Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup.


The line's taper doesn't matter. Its going to be the exact same.

Dry fly rods were always faster rods when dealing with older fishing; this helped dry the fly on casting, as well as setting the hook.

However, all modern graphite rods are inherently stiffer than older materials. You want a medium-fast rod if you plan to fish water that's less than 60' wide primarily.

Fast, stiff, rods are great for throwing long distances and punching through wind but not so great for protecting fine tippet you use with small dry flies or casting up close without specialty extra heavy lines.

Feel is subjective. YMMV.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 1:47
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April 8, 2007 - December 4, 2011.
And why not?


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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Thanks, Gfen. That's exactly the info I was after.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 2:18


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase
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2006/9/11 8:26
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
Quote:

Six-Gun wrote:
Up to now, I've been told that as a rule of thumb, a slower action dry fly rod along with double taper line is an ideal dry fly setup.


The line's taper doesn't matter. Its going to be the exact same.

Dry fly rods were always faster rods when dealing with older fishing; this helped dry the fly on casting, as well as setting the hook.

However, all modern graphite rods are inherently stiffer than older materials. You want a medium-fast rod if you plan to fish water that's less than 60' wide primarily.

Fast, stiff, rods are great for throwing long distances and punching through wind but not so great for protecting fine tippet you use with small dry flies or casting up close without specialty extra heavy lines.

Feel is subjective. YMMV.



^ It took 11,001 posts, but well said, Gary.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 5:21


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2766
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I'll strongly urge you to not put much weight on the posts that read " the X model rod with a double taper will land the fly like a butterfly with sore feet ". It is not the rod but the caster that makes the cast. I think what Gary mentions is pretty spot on. You will have rods with a stiff tip, stiff mid section and / or stiff but. The softer tip makes fishing in closer easier and more accurate but it can also be done with a stiff tip rod when given to a good caster. GO TRY RODS. See what fits you style of casting and preference for feel. I'm not an Orvis fan but going to one of their dealers will give you the chance to cast a tip flex, mid flex and full flex model. You will form your own opinion very quickly. I'm pretty sure I could go e old lefty a WF9 and he'll land the fly softly. It's just as much the casting stroke and leader construction for 'soft landing casts'

To respond to pcrays bamboo posting......wooden golf clubs are pretty to look at but not practical to play. If your bamboo rod gets heavy after casting it for an hour, why would you even use it? If you were at an evemt celebrating the heritage of the sport, fine but for actual fishing, why use inferior / outdated gear?

Tom, hopefully I haven't broken my streak of worthless posts. LMAO

Posted on: 2013/11/7 7:12
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Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2006/9/12 12:07
From Berryville Virginia
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When you said-“4wt (not negotiable - I don't own one yet, so that's what I'm getting), -Primarily for dry flies (I'm leaning more toward nice presentation over distance, but it must be vesatile enough to throw smaller wooly buggers and similar streamers) and- Primarily for small/medium water (I don't have a lot of access to really big rivers)”. You describe a bamboo fly rod 8’ 4 wt. Quad or Hex period. That is what they do best (you plastic guys can say what you want). I would go with a Quad in NV, and if I was 90-95% dry fly fishing.
Joe E

Posted on: 2013/11/7 7:35


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

Joined:
2011/5/26 10:12
From Dauphin PA
Posts: 2766
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Good reasoning and no supporting arguments in prior post. I'll take this thought process and apply it elsewhere.....

Hey six-gun, I see you were deciding between a 60" LED TV and a 70" LCD TV. I'd get a 10" black and white TV. That's when they were good.
Yours truly,
A. Tool


The guy stated that he wants a 4 weight. Let's get some posts suggesting he'd be better off with a 2 weight or 8 weight spey rod. You can always bank on 50% of responses will be absolutely useless. Carry on.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 8:28
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Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

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2012/8/7 11:26
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Six,

The Circa is a little bit of a funky rod to describe if you haven't cast it. It's got a lot of flex (ie slow), but recovers fast (like a fast rod). It's kind of the best of both worlds.

RE what makes a good dry fly rod - Rod action is all preference in my opinion, but rods that flex better tend to give you a better feel on the line, making it easier to present, but only if you like to cast that type of rod.

It's true that a longer taper will give you a better presentation. Personally, I use a Rio Trout LT or similar because it's just like a double taper in close, but has the benefit of welded loops, and takes up less space on the reel.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 18:16


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

Joined:
2013/9/6 11:40
From Hunker
Posts: 193
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Another way to get info on all the rods is by googling fly rod reviews for 2-3-4wts. I've read many articles on rod "shoot-outs" where a few fly anglers test a bunch of different rods and score them on distance, roll casting, presentation, etc, so that will give you an idea of which ones to test when you go test them.

Posted on: 2013/11/7 18:18
_________________
"Ours is the grandest sport. It is an intriguing battle of wits between an angler and a trout; and in addition to appreciating the tradition and grace of the game, we play it in the magnificent out-of-doors."
~ Ernest G. Schwiebert, Jr.


Re: Help me make a gratuitious rod purchase

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13403
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Kray,

I will repeat that I'm mostly a graphite guy. The bamboo is BETTER at certain tasks, at least IMO. It's not outdated, inferior, or anything like that. Not better at everything, but better at some things. And most of my rods are specialists anymore.

As for the OP,

Gfen is correct. Everything here is subjective. Guy #1 loves one rod and hates another. Guy #2 is the exact opposite. So it goes.

We describe actions as slow, medium, fast, stiff, or whatever. It's all overly subjective. One guy's fast is another's medium. It's also overly simplistic. Tapers are complex. We picture a typical progressive taper going from thicker (stiffer) to thinner (softer) from grip to tip. And that's basically true, but it's not a perfectly smooth taper and those details vary wildly. As do the materials and so forth.

The simple matter is that I can cast one "fast" action rod and hate it, and cast another and love it. Same with a slow action. "Feel" is ridiculously complicated to describe, but when you cast it, you know pretty quickly.

For me, well, I tend to overpower my casts, even at short distances. For dry flies, I don't "lay it down soft". Heck, I almost never try to straighten out a leader like that. My most typical cast is to throw a rocket of a cast aiming to straighten out with the fly about 4 ft above the water, then stop it with a shock, and let the line and leader fall down to the water in S-coils. I also sometimes do slack line casts or pile casts. When nymphing, I throw a lot of tuck casts. For big stuff, well, I just lob.

With my style, I basically like rockets. It should take all the power I wanna give it, and at least feel like it can take more. What I hate with a passion are those rods that feel like they have a "hinge" around the handle, and when you give it more power, it seems to just fall apart. Troutbum's fit the mold.

But you can get that power even in a slow or medium action! Like I said, I even like the bamboo!

I can respect wanting to splurge. It's not necessary, but it's fun. But you don't want to spend this kind of money without making sure you're gonna like what you get. And the only way to do that is to TRY IT OUT. Take 5 or 6 different models, go out to a lawn, and have at it. Any reputable fly shop will let you do this. Rank them all. That way, if you repeat this at another fly shop, hopefully one or two of the models will overlap, and you can use it as a placeholder. "Ok, so I liked the XXX better than the YYY at the first shop, and at the 2nd, I liked the YYY better than the ZZZ, so I must like the XXX better than the ZZZ too."

Posted on: 2013/11/8 9:51



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