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Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Williamsport, PA
Posts: 600
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Quote:

moon1284 wrote:
St Croix Legend Spinning Rod - $440
St Croix Legend Elite Fly Rod - $440

The cost is all labor. Americans don't work for 4 cents an hour. If we open sweatshops you can have American products at Chinese prices. Nobody in America is getting rich selling fly rods and reels. Sage,Orvis, Scott, etc are not greedy companies. Imagine if these companies were fully unionized. How much would gear cost then? You get what you pay for.

Chinese lines aren't even close to $50 SA/Rio/Cortland lines. No comparison. They cost $15 and that's what they are worth. Sure you could cast them OK, I could cast a weed wacker line OK too.


I've been pleasantly surprised by the cheap fly lines from China. Are you actually trying any of these Chinese products or are you just assuming that since its made in China its automatically junk? As for getting what you pay for...thats not the case with most of my experiences especially with fly fishing gear.

Posted on: 5/15 10:48


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2007/10/7 0:44
From philadelphia
Posts: 340
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a lot of people have misconceptions.

a lot of people who cry"buy american" are the same people who won't use eagle claw hooks.

crazy world.

Posted on: 5/15 14:46


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 665
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Quote:

shakey wrote:
a lot of people have misconceptions.

a lot of people who cry"buy american" are the same people who won't use eagle claw hooks.

crazy world.


It's not so much "Buy American!" as it is "DON'T BUY Chinese, Mexican, etc.!" for most people who complain about foreign goods. These countries being distasteful for consumers for a variety of reasons, not least of which are nationalistic, political, and racist. Some are also stuck thinking that the manufacturing capabilities of other countries haven't advanced in the last 30+ years.

Also, the reason some of the products from these countries are in fact junk, is because we (collectively) are dumb enough to buy junk. On the other hand, if we are willing to pay just a little more, and refuse inferior products, China and elsewhere are completely capable of producing a great piece of gear.

Posted on: 5/15 17:50


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

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2010/8/4 11:18
Posts: 834
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Yes I've tried them. I can cast them but they are inferior to real lines.

How many people fly fish in China? Are they developing their own products or blatantly copying American ones? Anyone can copy things, I'm willing to pay for the real deal.

Posted on: 5/15 18:08


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

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2013/12/7 0:10
From SE Pa
Posts: 783
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Manufacturing can be brought back in a heartbeat to satisfy any demand.


Quote:
Not in a society with this degree of regulation. Everything's grandfathered but good luck doin anything new. Replace a bridge? No problem. Build a new one? Uh, yeah, maybe you'll break ground in 25 years.


I stand corrected, unions and/or suffocating regulation.

Posted on: 5/15 20:18


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 1830
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I mainly have used Rio lines but I have some Chinese lines that cast just as well. If you dyed them the same color and put them on identical reels I couldn't tell the difference.


If I'm a custom bamboo rod maker and I bring in a youngster and teach him the trade is he ripping me off if he then goes out and starts his own business? I'd say only if he is using some technique or materials I've protected y patent, etc.

Posted on: 5/16 7:38
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Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Williamsport, PA
Posts: 600
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Quote:

moon1284 wrote:
Yes I've tried them. I can cast them but they are inferior to real lines.

How many people fly fish in China? Are they developing their own products or blatantly copying American ones? Anyone can copy things, I'm willing to pay for the real deal.


You must have the financial ability to pay more for the American made product that is pretty much exactly the same as the foreign made. Is everything exactly the same? No...but my experiences as of lately have been great the majority of the time. With fly lines I can usually buy 4 or 5 of the foreign made lines compared to the price of one American made. I can experiment with the foreign lines. Honestly I can't say that about my experiences with the American made products. I guess since I'm paying more I expect more but never seem to get it. Even with Simms...I scratch my head with their waders. I own a pair because I could justify spending the money for the amount of use I was going to get out of them. I am however greatly disappointed in some of the design features. Why would anyone design waders a light color? Do they figure since you are spending $500+ that you are going to baby them and never get them dirty? I really wish I still had my older pair of G3s because they showed the dirt less and I liked the interior pocket better. I have a giant reddish brown stain on the back of my new G3 waders from sitting on a clay bank. Also who in the heck ever designed that ugly camo color? Thats just one example I have.

Posted on: 5/16 8:52


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 665
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Shop smart and buy lines when they go on closeout instead of when you actually need one. American made lines can be had for very reasonable prices. I buy 4, 5, and 6wt lines almost every year at deep discount prices just by keeping an eye out for them. If it's a line marketed as a general purpose, or a line I know I will use, I buy it. I've gotten $75+ lines for $30 or less on several occasions.

Posted on: 5/16 9:10


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/23 0:52
From Williamsport, PA
Posts: 600
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Quote:

PennKev wrote:
Shop smart and buy lines when they go on closeout instead of when you actually need one. American made lines can be had for very reasonable prices. I buy 4, 5, and 6wt lines almost every year at deep discount prices just by keeping an eye out for them. If it's a line marketed as a general purpose, or a line I know I will use, I buy it. I've gotten $75+ lines for $30 or less on several occasions.


I've done that. My last name brand lines all came from either eBay or Sierra Trading. You can sometimes find good deals like that on Sierra. That being said...is buying these closeouts really helping the American companies?

Posted on: 5/16 10:01


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
Posts: 665
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I really don't know about that. American retailers need to liquidate old inventory so in a way it does help them. In the bigger picture, If prices are such that customers refuse to buy at retail pricing, retailers will stock less of that brand/product and manufacturers with a more palatable pricing structures should gain market share. The question is will those companies be American or foreign?

Posted on: 5/16 10:39


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2013/3/28 20:10
From Poconos
Posts: 172
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I've never paid full price for name brand fly line. $80+ for fly line is outrageous in my opinion. Like PennKev, I keep my eyes open all year and typically get SA or Rio fly lines for $50 or less.

WRT the chinese fly reels....Next time I need a new trout reel, I will likely look at Piscifun and Maxcatch. Never heard of them before.

Posted on: 5/16 11:58


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

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2006/12/7 18:13
Posts: 416
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When I started fly-fishing, “quality” was where you found it regardless of country of origin.

American rods were considered tops but the best reels were English, along with fly boxes and other gadgets. These days, you can definitely find reels as good as or better than the best on the market back then, for prices that equal what the going rate was back then.

I remember all too well when Hardy & the Orvis CFO reels topped the $100 price point but to honest, many of the import reels of today are better quality then a Hardy was back in the 1980’s. My first “good” rod was an Orvis Limestone Special that went for over $100, which was a big chunk of change for a graphite rod.

Bottom line, a $200 combo today is WAY better than a $200 combo was in 1980. That’s because the quality & bling bar is way higher today than it was back them so reels are machined and rod hardware is better quality. So, if you are fishing with Asian tackle, you are fishing with better stuff than I was when I was fishing the best. You have nothing to apologize about or explain.

What pisses me off is when companies take their manufacturing off-shore and keep the price point the same.

Some of you may remember about 15 years ago when Hardy was selling UK built reels around the $300 price point. They then took those models to Korea but lowered the price only marginally. They also moved production of their top of the line Zenith Titanium to Korea and kept the price @ $800 which pissed off those folks who bought one after the move.

If that wasn’t bad enough, they introduced or rather re-introduced certain “classic” reels as “built in the UK” but they cost you $600-$800!!

Fast forward 10 - 12 years and you can buy any number of Hardy classic reels made in the UK for $250-$300 including a few that would have cost you $600-$800 10 years ago.

So what happened?

Asian economy changes, UK economy changes….sorry, I don’t buy it, just like I don’t buy the excuses for rising gas prices every Memorial Day, 4th of July & Labor Day.

The manufacturers see us coming with our opinions, snobbery and fat wallets. That’s why $800 - $1000 top of the line rods are the norm along with $100 fly lines, $500 reels, $15 tippet material and $100 nippers to cut that $15 tippet material.

A fantastic pair Abel fishing pliers cost you $100 only a few years ago UNTIL two years ago when one manufacturer pushed the envelope with a $300 pair. Now, the Abel’s are $300 and their nippers that hit the market @ $50 are now close to double that. Top of the line fly lines are getting ridiculous ever since the $100 Sharkskin hit the market when everybody else was sitting at $50. Now $70 - $80 is the norm.

I understand inflation but fly tackle plays by its own set of rules. A great fly reel with a massive amount of porting to reduce weight and no gearing or gizmos will run you about $100 an ounce. If you want a super duper rod, you will spend $500- $800.

A great complicated geared, fancy-schmancy baitcaster with run you about $40 an ounce while a great graphite baitcasting rod MIGHT run you $200.

Why, maybe only because conventional tackle anglers just aren’t willing to spend that kind of dough.

What about the PFBC “voluntary” fishing permits? It seems suspicious to me the permits that would have the greatest appeal to fly fishing trout anglers, cost twice as much as the permits for warmwater. Why?

Yup, they see us coming…

Posted on: 5/16 16:40


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2013/12/7 0:10
From SE Pa
Posts: 783
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Ummmmmmmmmmm, you do know that people go into business to make as much money as they can. I don't fault anybody for doing that or the methods they employ to accomplish this goal.

We all have choices, I choose not to pay good money for a name while others can choose to spend their money however they see fit. As long as we have choices their is no good reason to be mad at anybody for earning as much as they can.

Posted on: 5/16 20:38


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2006/9/9 16:08
From Erie Co.
Posts: 425
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checking out the web sites IMO the Entry level Chinese FF gear is still expensive, One can find better quality cheaper used.

The 25% tariff tax has the Chinese pretty dam afraid or they would not be doing what they are doing on the world stage.

Posted on: 5/19 7:58


Re: Entry level Chinese FF gear

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 1830
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Quote:

CRB wrote:
checking out the web sites IMO the Entry level Chinese FF gear is still expensive, One can find better quality cheaper used.

The 25% tariff tax has the Chinese pretty dam afraid or they would not be doing what they are doing on the world stage.


You can get nice aluminum reels from $30 to $75. Reasonably good casting rods for $50 to $100. Line for $25. I guess "expensive" is subjective. A lot of Chinese products have seen price increases in the past couple years due to increases in labor costs. Most Americans are unaware that several provinces in China have minimum wages set by the government and they have been going up. In some cases by as much as 20% per year.

I haven't tried leaders or tippet as the US brands work well and I can pick them up at Cabela's with rewards points.



Posted on: 5/19 8:20



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