Big fish switch rod.

[brookiesRfun]

Hey guys,
I am starting to research some options for switch rods.I would like some advice. For steel head, kings and big browns up in NY. I would use it for smallie fishing as well to haul out those big wieghted crayfish imitations that my 9 ft 8 wt has trouble with. Any body cast a 9 wt switch rod? Any one own one? Is a 9 wt going to be too big?
Thanks guys,

Greg

 

[gfen]

Its been my amatuerish understanding that spey and switch rods don't correllate to AFTMA line weights and what says "6wt switch rod" is more akin to "8wt AFTMA line weight, or more."

So 9wt switch rods do not mean 9wt rods.

YMMV. Wiser voices will likely speak up, but until they can I recommend speypages.com for some more targeted research.

 

[CPR]

Length distributes the the stress over a larger area. The longer the rod the more load it can handle.

The extra length of the switch and spey rods allow for heavier loads. >>>> Larger fish on a less line weight.

The size of the fly your throwing is more important than the size of the fish your hoping to hook.

 

[brookiesRfun]

CPR wrote:
Length distributes the the stress over a larger area. The longer the rod the more load it can handle.

The extra length of the switch and spey rods allow for heavier loads. >>>> Larger fish on a less line weight.

The size of the fly your throwing is more important than the size of the fish your hoping to hook.

I have been looking at some info online while breaking from my studies..That is what I have found. I can't imagine I would need more than an 8wt. From what I understand that is akin to a 10 wt of regular fly line. My 8wt orvis 9ft will chuck a size 4 heavy crayfish imitation ok...It doesn't throw it great but I could imagine a 10 wt would be fine...I think w a sink tip I would not need to weight a fly as much? 6 ft of t8 = easier time throwing fly with out the head ache I think? Plus not need a backcast?

 

[gfen]

Spey casting is akin to roll casting, you're using the water tension to help load the rod. There's also overhead, two handed casting which is more traditional casting and requires those heavy lines to load the rod up.

You'll find that guys who are into two handed rods don't talk as much about a line weight rating as much as the specific grain weight of the head.

It appears, to this outsider at least, to be a black art.

 

[CPR]

brookiesrfun,

you cannot adequately grasp the concepts from reading books or internet sites. Two-hand rods and casting them requires a hands-on education.

There are a few guides on the Salmon river that are experienced casters and will have a selection of rods and set-ups for you to try.

Hire one of these guides and spend a day on the river actually casting. You'll cut your learning curve by 10fold.

matt

 

[Ramcatt]

it sounds like your issues are with line tapers, rather than rods

"wieghted crayfish imitations that my 9 ft 8 wt has trouble with"
"My 8wt orvis 9ft will chuck a size 4 heavy crayfish imitation ok"
- look for a strong WF taper built to handle bigger flies. I use an 8wt for 5-7in pike/musky flies just fine... also work on shooting line/line speed/double hauling

if your intensions are to single hand, stick with a single hand rod. there are not many things in FF more uncomfortable than trying to single hand a switch/2hander

if you are looking to high stick nymph.. get a 9.5 or 10'

in my opinion the phrase "switch" refers to switching between 2handed spey casts or single handed spey casts

"Spey casting is akin to roll casting, you're using the water tension to help load the rod."
- that is not true. the rod is loaded by the top half of the d-loop (the arial loop below the rod tip). water is used as the anchor (the somewhat pivot point). a spey cast by definition is a change in direction cast... the anchor (water) is used to change direction, the d-loop loads the rod

once you start talking lines to match a rod... you need to decide the flies you want to fish and work back. that will help you with sandi/skagit/midbelly/whatever

arbitrarily saying "6 ft of t8" is not a good way to start

t-8, t-10, t-11, t-14- they all have the same sink rates in current
the difference is the effect they have on on you setup (fly and head)... the 8,10,11,14 all refer to grains per foot (mass)... you need more mass to turn over larger flies... but more mass in a tip requires more mass in the head to turn over the tip and then in turn the fly.

if you get a rod there will be a "grain window" or some sort of manufacture line rating (both rod and line companies have these online)... use that as a guideline, but you will want something that will fits your style... a save bet is middle of the "recommendations"... as they all vary

 

[brookiesRfun]

CPR wrote:
brookiesrfun,

you cannot adequately grasp the concepts from reading books or internet sites. Two-hand rods and casting them requires a hands-on education.

There are a few guides on the Salmon river that are experienced casters and will have a selection of rods and set-ups for you to try.

Hire one of these guides and spend a day on the river actually casting. You'll cut your learning curve by 10fold.

matt

Matt,
I can already do the basic casts with my one handed rod that a spey caster does.....10 fold learning curve is done. Now I just need to sort out what switch rod.

 

[brookiesRfun]

One of the reasons to go to switch rods is I don't want to have to double haul. Double haul=sore shoulder and lost flys in trees.
Also if t14 has more grains per foot would it not sink faster in water then say t8? So say a piece of t14 is two feet long it weighs 28 grains. A piece of t8 on the other hand of the same length would weigh say 16 grains. Do I under stand this right?
Roll casts, spey casts, snap T Jump rolls I use with my sigle handed rod when fishing I understand the concept of those.
Just ain't sure on the equipment. When I am fishing some larger streams a 11 foot rod would get me to the other side whereas my 9 just won't quite do it if I have an obstructed backcast.
Thanks
Greg

 

[gfen]

Ramcatt wrote:
"Spey casting is akin to roll casting, you're using the water tension to help load the rod."
- that is not true. the rod is loaded by the top half of the d-loop (the arial loop below the rod tip). water is used as the anchor (the somewhat pivot point). a spey cast by definition is a change in direction cast... the anchor (water) is used to change direction, the d-loop loads the rod

thank god i said akin and not "the exact same thing" or else you'd have me looking stupid.

 

[CPR]

brookiesRfun wrote:

CPR wrote:
brookiesrfun,

you cannot adequately grasp the concepts from reading books or internet sites. Two-hand rods and casting them requires a hands-on education.

There are a few guides on the Salmon river that are experienced casters and will have a selection of rods and set-ups for you to try.

Hire one of these guides and spend a day on the river actually casting. You'll cut your learning curve by 10fold.

matt

Matt,
I can already do the basic casts with my one handed rod that a spey caster does.....10 fold learning curve is done. Now I just need to sort out what switch rod.

I watch Ed Ward do a Perry Poke and then go out and bang few perfect ones in the back yard but when I get on the water, with the current, and a big meaty intruder on the end of the line, and I'm the proverbial "idiot in the water waving a big stick".

Good luck to you.

 

[brookiesRfun]

CPR wrote:

brookiesRfun wrote:

CPR wrote:
brookiesrfun,

you cannot adequately grasp the concepts from reading books or internet sites. Two-hand rods and casting them requires a hands-on education.

There are a few guides on the Salmon river that are experienced casters and will have a selection of rods and set-ups for you to try.

Hire one of these guides and spend a day on the river actually casting. You'll cut your learning curve by 10fold.

matt

Matt,
I can already do the basic casts with my one handed rod that a spey caster does.....10 fold learning curve is done. Now I just need to sort out what switch rod.

I watch Ed Ward do a Perry Poke and then go out and bang few perfect ones in the back yard but when I get on the water, with the current, and a big meaty intruder on the end of the line, and I'm the proverbial "idiot in the water waving a big stick".

Good luck to you.

Same here on some days LOL!

 

[Tiltaxp]

I have 2 rainshadow's that came as a kit for pretty cheap. I bought a skagit short head and it makes it really easy to control. I really wasn't looking to put a lot of money into it as it may only get used a couple times (2-3x) a year. Even a clutzy pinner can figure it out with moderate success. the 8/9wt rod works well for salmon/steelhead but I do have a 6/7wt that I have yet to even cast or buy a head for. Good luck, if you're ever in SE pa and want to give it a shot let me know.

 

[brookiesRfun]

Tiltaxp wrote:
I have 2 rainshadow's that came as a kit for pretty cheap. I bought a skagit short head and it makes it really easy to control. I really wasn't looking to put a lot of money into it as it may only get used a couple times (2-3x) a year. Even a clutzy pinner can figure it out with moderate success. the 8/9wt rod works well for salmon/steelhead but I do have a 6/7wt that I have yet to even cast or buy a head for. Good luck, if you're ever in SE pa and want to give it a shot let me know.

Thanks Tiltaxp,
I have pretty much settled on the 8wt switch rod. as from what I gather thats comparable to a 10 or 11 weight reg fly line, that should be plenty.

 

[turkey]

For what its worth brookies, I use a 6wt switch for erie run fish, smallies, and even tailwater trout. I wouldn't trust it if Kings were in the water. But as mentioned before, its definitely about what type of fly you want to use, what type of water (depth, current), your casting style, etc. Thats why its so hard to recommend gear to someone.

There are so many damn line options now, its even more confusing. But therein lies the fun.

Speaking of Ed Ward, I read a post of his one time that emphasized picking one rod, head, sink tip, and a few similar types of flies and learning with that first...before you get bogged down in different tapers and sink rates like I did, FWIW.

 

[brookiesRfun]

Thanks for the advice turkey.
I am still leaning on the 8 wt side... For steelhead its not too over sized. For a really heavy crayfish pattern to get to the bottom of a deep run for smb it should be about right.