Big Water 5 weight

M

mr7183

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Apr 18, 2012
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Took a trip out to the West Branch this weekend (had a blast) and got caught in a few situations where my trusty Winston WT couldn't handle a stiff wind or make some of the longer casts required in the game lands. This got me thinking maybe I should look into a faster action 5 wt for waters where longer casts are necessary.


Any suggestions?
 
Sage One.
 
To be honest, I've heard from people I trust that the Sage ONE is a broomstick from anywhere closer than 25 ft. I'd like to have my cake and eat it.
 
I have Rio Gold on my 590 One and have no problem with it close.

Flyrods are like women, one that's hot to one guy might be homely to another.

 
I think "Delaware" is indian for 'river of constant friggin wind'.

The short answer is: Use a 6wt.

I think you're going to find that most of the fast or ultra fast action rods designed for distance suck in close or require you to overline them at shorter distance or it's just too much work to cast with any accuracy at 20'.

Which 5wt is best for up there? Good question. I've seen guys use 9', 9.5' and 10' rods to fight the wind or to cover the required distances. You'll get the NRX, One, BIIIMX and other suggestions. Without casting one, don't purchase. I've cast Z-Axis, One and TCX. IMHO, none of them are great by any means but the Z is what I ended up with. Since 95% of my fishing is on the Big East (or on WB if I have to), it's a similar situation but probably a little more wind involved. The line up of rods consists of a St. Croix Legend Elite 905-4, Z Axis 905-4, Sage RPL+ 906-2, Save VXP 906-4, TFO Axiom 906-4, Redington CPX 10' 5wt and St Croix Legend Ultra 906-4SW.

When floating, I'll have a 6wt rigged with a larger fly / heavier tippet (#10 March brown on 4x), I'd also have a lighter rod rigged with a longer leader and lighter tippet (#14 Hendrickson on 5x). I might also have another dry rod rigged with a longer leader yet and a smaller fly (#16 harrops caddis emerger on 5x). That permits quick change w/o screwing around with leader, tippet or fly boxes. If you are on foot, not such an easy task to carry multiple rods (also known as PIA).

A 9' - 9.5' rod should be good for length. You can then choose a 5 or 6 weight model. Some rods will allow you to carry a spare spool in the vest and change from 5 to 6 line if the wind kicks up. The extra line weight will allow you to more easily get the fly to the fish in a breeze. On windy days up there, you have to pass up on fish, put yourself into a more wind friendly position on said fish or find areas that are sheltered from the wind.

I'll agree with the report you've gotten on the One.... it felt too firm all the way to the tip for my liking. I prefer a fast rod with a bit of a softer tip. The Z Axis felt too soft into the butt and mid section but it's a pretty good rod. For my personal preference and casting style, the Legend Elite is money and the ol' RPL+ isn't too far behind. The Axiom is similar but a little more stout. The St Croix retails for $450 and the TFO retails for $279 so you don't have to wrap up $700 to get a decent rod. Also, the TFO warranty is crazy good. Last trip up, the tip on my St Croix broke....$30 and spare tip arrived at my home in 3 days. Also a nice touch.

Not sure where you're located but the offer is there to cast what I've got on hand. Lines range from sharkskin to Rio Gold to Rio Perception. A line change can dramatically change the performance of the rod.

Whatever you do, make sure you cast as many rods as you can before making a decision.
 
Krayfish and Brookie - thanks a ton for the responses. Really appreciate it.

Kray - I'm in Philly and don't get up there with as much regularity as you. However, my parents are in the Scranton area and whenever I see them I plan to take a ride out there. I'll message you when I do.


I'm leaning more towards a fast, 905... for a few reasons. I want it to have some versatility for smaller streams. I'll be spending a ton of time in State College the next few years for personal reasons and don't want a rod that is too much for the limestoners out there.


Re: specific models... I've heard great things about the NRX and the Radian. But they seem really expensive. It's great to hear that some of the mid-priced rods also get it done. My first rod was actually a St. Croix Imperial and I have many fond memories with it.
 
Try what you can get your hands on. One other that I cast and really, really liked as a distance rod was a Helios2 tip flex. Not sure how practical it would be for fishing around here. If you will be using it on Spring and such, a softer tip will probably make it more pleasurable to use.

It's kind of like hitting tee shots 200 yards in the air with 20 yards of roll. Bubba Watson flies it 305 with a Ping XX shaft driver. If you hit his driver....you'd be shorter and never in your own fairway. Get what works for the slot you are trying to fill.

If you Google Radian vs One or some other combo, you'll find tons of feedback and reviews.


Below is in the comments section on Gink & Gasoline:


Keith Harris on September 27, 2013 at 8:47 pm said:


I’ve cast several models of the Radian and I have to say they are probably the nicest rods on the market. They feel really light in the hand. They have a lot of feel; more so than other fast action rods. They are quite forgiving of casting errors; I think because you really feel them load. They are also easier to cast with a short length of line out than most other fast action rods. That being said, I don’t think they are as powerful for making long casts as the Sage One.

Reply ?




Kent Klewein
on September 27, 2013 at 10:58 pm said:

Keith,

Thanks for providing us your testimonial on the Radian fly rod, particularly about the forgiveness of the rod. That is spot on and it was noticeably more forgiving than the Sage ONE for me when I cast the two side by side. My favorite Radian model that I’ve cast is the 9? 6? 6wt.

Kent


 
Sage One or Helios 2 are the prototypical Delaware River rod. I use my One everywhere.
 
I have really been liking my winston passport I got on closeout. I hate to say but I think I like it equal to my Sage ZXL only I got it for $139! It's not a soft rod to me by any means and I bet it could handle the Delaware.
 
I have zero experience when it comes to these more expensive rods.

I have a St. Croix Bank Robber 6-wt. ($440) with the the Scientific Anglers Streamer Express Sink Tip "Long" (50-foot) ($80). Kelly Galloup worked with the companies to get the rod and line to work together well. It does shoot bulky flies with ease…even in wind. The thin diameter tungsten core head cuts wind like hot knife through butter.

So…I would approach this need from the combined performance of the line/rod. Just saying'…

I am again not very experienced in all the different lines. A new line may be a cheaper solution…but not as much fun as a full new rig.
 
I can't speak to your Winston in particular or recommend a rod (I have my thoughts, but the best thing is for you to cast a couple because rods handle differently in different hands and casting strokes)... but there are techniques to help cast in the wind. Keep it low, tight loop, throw 3/4 sidearm, etc. you can learn to minimize the affect of the wind...
 
Latest 5 wt shoot-out rating rods from nearly every major rod maker:

http://www.tridentflyfishing.com/blog/2014-five-5-weight-shootout-orvis-hardy-scott-sage-best-fly-rod-review-test

I would use the above info as a guideline, but as always, I recommend you cast some of the rods you are interested in before you buy.
 
TFO Pro Series II.
 
Like the linked Trident review above says, inside 25 feet, you've got 7' or less line out the tip of your rod. In this situation, just about any rod that's fast enough to reach out any respectable distance into the wind is going to feel a little bit like a broomstick if you've only got 9' of leader and a dry tied on.

I've got the 690-4 One and it's at it's best when the line out of the tip is more than the length of the rod, meaning, with a 9' leader, you're looking at a cast about 28-30' from the angler. From here, it only gets better as you move toward the 45-60 foot range, then whether due to my ability (most likely) or the rod & line, it's less and less ideal out to my max casting distances of 75-80 feet.

Similar to over-lining, I found that i got a lot more feel in-close (in exchange for pure range) by switching to a short x-fast sink poly leader when fishing streamers. This gets much more flex in the rod at close range and I'm sure a 2 nymph rig with shot would have a similar effect.
 
afishinado wrote:
Latest 5 wt shoot-out rating rods from nearly every major rod maker:

http://www.tridentflyfishing.com/blog/2014-five-5-weight-shootout-orvis-hardy-scott-sage-best-fly-rod-review-test

I would use the above info as a guideline, but as always, I recommend you cast some of the rods you are interested in before you buy.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. Wish they included the Legend Elite. I think I am between the Helios 2 905 and Legend Elite 905... will try to cast both and figure out if the Orvis is worth the extra $$$.
 
I was just up on the D recently with a Sage VXP. It handled the wind beautifully. It was fine to cast within 20 and a real pleasure over 30. I will agree with Krayfish though. My technique changed throughout the trip from trying to punch line through the wind, to planning my stalk better to minimize the effects of the wind. In my limited experience, that river can be cruel. I would have liked a different rod for each section we fished, but the VXP really performed admirably. It wasn't as stiff as some of the other Sage rocket launchers, and I was able to accurately cast 50 and 60 feet with ease.
 
I also meant to add that the VXP is on deep discount right now. I guess they are replacing with something new. I picked mine up for under 300.
 
What line do you use on that vxp? I tried gold but it felt dead so I ordered perception. I've only cast it in the yard once and thought it was 'ok'.

In response to the original poster, the elite and helios are fairly different. I think the elite is better in close. Hell, you could get a elite 905-5, a clearwater 4 weight for smaller streams and a new line for less than the cost of the helios. The orvis rod will probably have a better quality finish but fish aren't impressed by perfect epoxy jobs...I've asked them. LOL.

I got DaveS on the elite kick and stimey uses mine when we float together. He loves it. If you look at the 5 weight shootouts, the elite is in the top 3-5 and it's going against big ticket price rods. I let old lefty use it at the LL during newbie jam 2-3 years ago. After tossing s full 125' tournament line, "That rod is nice. What kind is it? Might have to get one of theses."

The cheapest true cannon is the axiom. A 5wt will EASILY handle 6wt line too but it seems too stiff to be effective at short distances. Cast what you can before you buy.
 
Do you find that the Elite can handle some of the long bombs you need to make on the D?
 
No problem. In prior post, I said Dave Rothrock tossed it 125'. Is that long enough? LMAO
 
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