Best cleats for rubber soles - Star Cleats or something else?

[Beefheart]

I'm on my second pair of Simms Freestone wading boots with rubber soles and am having a problem with my current cleat setup, especially on the Susquehanna. On the first pair of Freestones, I used their Hard Bite Studs and supplemented over time with Kold Kutter ice tire studs. The Kold Kutters work well but they wear out quickly. The Hard Bite Studs wore down some, but they lasted very well for the two years I wore those boots.

With this second pair, I again used the Hard Bite Studs with some Kold Kutters, but the Hard Bites have worn off nearly completely in a matter of months. Hard Bites have very small BB's (but smaller than BB size) and those are completely gone from most of them. So I need something new, especially because I've been wading the Susquehanna and I've taken an unintended swim several times now when otherwise I very rarely fall in. I'm thinking about the Simms Star Cleats, but I also see that I could buy Patagonia Foot Tractor Aluminum Bars or Chota Carbide Cleats. I'm not sure if the Simms Freestones would take those aluminum bars or if it's worth the $40, but I want much better traction than I have now.

Any experience with those star cleats? Something else I should try that I haven't mentioned? Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[pcray1231]

I had the alumibite cleats at one point and thought they were utterly terrible.

On bigger flattish rocks, even when dry and non slimy (like, the easy walking stuff), it was like being on roller skates. The cleats were thick enough that the rubber does not hit home, so you were walking on a small surface area of flat metal alone. If you've ever worn football cleats, the ones with the removable hard plastic cleats, and went onto concrete with them. Yeah, that's what it was like.

The star cleats have that same wide star pattern, which makes me wary of them. They are, though, supposed to be thinner and allow the rubber sole to make contact as well. I guess after my alumibite experience, I've always just been hesitant to spend the money and find out they are the same.

Personally, I often use regular hardware store variety hex screws. To be clear, the hardbite cleats last much longer, and the cold cutters last longer as well. But the hex screws are cheap, easy to find, and the traction is just as good. Further, once a sole gets to the point where studs are coming out and the holes are stripped and won't hold another cleat, you can always just go a size larger on the hex screws and get good thread bite again.

 

[DGC]

I use the aluminum bar Patagonia boots on the slipperiest freestones such as the LJ, Savage River, etc. If you are hopping lots of dry rock they are not what you want. Nor are they for wet logs and slippery mud banks that suddenly leave you sliding in up to your armpits, but then neither were felts, at least the unstudded ones.

But if you are trekking from banks into the rocky water, they have no peer. I have waded some very treacherous areas in these and stayed upright. Nothing else comes close. Seriously. Without belaboring the age factor, now in my 60's my next hard fall may put me out of wading commission, and so I have gone to considerable trouble to get the best traction for the rivers I like best. The rationale for this TLDR post is for those with similar concerns.

The original aluminum bar boot is what I have. They have a design flaw, in that the bars are not countersunk enough to allow wear of the alumninum bar. Further, they used steel screws, which do not wear down at the same pace as the allie bars. I have replaced those with brass screws and they now seem to wear together. When the bars and screws wear down much lower, the slot in the screw will be gone, but I plan to use a grab bit to pull them out. Should not be a problem since they are in brass inserts in the first place. That's my working theory at the moment, anyway. It is not a project for those lacking basic tools i.e. drill and bits and good screwdriver, maybe vise grips for the recalcitrant screw that has bound to the insert. On the other hand, there are quite a few of them in each boot, so it does take time to do.

The original bar boot replacement kit comes with inserts. However, the inadequate countersink of the original design seems to remain.

The Foot Tractor I have not examined closely to determine if the countersink makes for an adequate amount of wear time for the bars before you hit the steel screws. I looked at the Foot tractor replacement bar kit and it does not seem to include inserts, and these and the screws used look shorter than the original.

I also have freestone rubber bottom boots from Simms. They don't fit me as well as the Patagonia due to my fat foot, but I like these on muddy bank areas. Even so, I bought 100 #8 1/2" long aluminum sheet metal screws with slotted hex heads and installed 25 per boot. The grip of these on slippery rocks is very good. I torqued these in pretty good, and none have come out. I also made sure to use virgin rubber to insert, not reuse holes from other studs. Again, any dry rock has to be traversed carefully. These will also wear down as any aluminum stud will. It is the price you pay for the traction. There is a reason an aluminum boat seems to get glued to a rocky riffle, and that same prinicple applies to boots with these aluminum components.

Could you go to the hardware store and buy allie bar, cut them to length and fashion your own bar boots? Probably, but I have not done the trial and error of that.

For the OP, if you accept the wear factor as the reality, then I would get the 100 aluminum sheet metal screws, slotted hex heads, and install those. Shop around and you can get these for $15-$17 shipped, enough to do your boots twice.

 

[dryflyguy]

I bought the simms hard bites studs earlier this year, to improve traction on a non-studded pair of wading boots.
And they did improve the traction quite a bit - a lot better than installing sheet metal screws IMO.
However, they are a little pricey. A small package of 20 studs costs $30 bucks.
Not happy to hear however, that apparently they don't last very long - at least in beefhearts experience with them.

Been thinking about trying the patagonia foot tractor wading boots. But the $300 price tag seems a bit much.

 

[Bamboozle]

Hate to say it but the best grip on the Susquehanna will come from a felt/stud combo. I've been using Chota STL's for years there with no issues.

If rubber bottoms are your choice, more bad news: the best grip will come from new NON-carbide studs like Cold Kutters, Ice Screws and the like. They are AMAZING when new but wear out fast which means you have to replace them often. Carbide lasts long but can be like ice skates on some rocks, especially big flat ones.

In the meantime if you don't own a wading staff, get one. They're not just for swift water. Slipping and falling on huge rocks regardless if the water is a foot deep can be brutal.

 

[DocPow]

I am with Bam... the wading staff is at least as important. I use the Simms Vapor boot as it is great for hiking in... I put the Simms Star Cleats on just to keep the boot's on trail performance as close to hiking boots as possible... meh, they work OK and with my staff I can get around pretty good. I had the Korkers Hex bolts on my old pair of boots and they worked pretty well.

But, from what my fishing guide has said, DGC's experience with the Patagonia aluminum bar make it well worth considering, and truth be told, occasionally I wish I had gone that route... hmm... Justification for getting a pair of Simms Guide Boots and the bars!! (now to convince the wife!)

 

[Beefheart]

I appreciate all the feedback. I bought some more Kold Kutters and am going to just accept the fact that I need to change them out frequently. I got 250 studs for $20, so I can load each boot with around 25 screws and see how it goes. I think I'll also get some aluminum hex-head screws like DGC recommended and intersperse those. Once the holes are worn out, I'm going to go up in size like PCray suggested.

I do have a pair of Gary Borger felt-bottoms where the felt started to come loose after one trip (on clearance for like $40 so I just accepted the loss). Maybe I'll refer to that sole repair thread and stick some extra screws in that to see how those fair on the Susqy.

In the future, when I've got some more cash on hand, I'm going to get some of those foot tractors. Sounds like a great system for most of the fishing that I do.

dryflyguy - not sure what to say about those Hard Bites. The first batch I had lasted two years and this recent set only a couple months. Maybe a bad batch? Gotta admit I gained about 20 pounds over the past few years so maybe I crossed a threshold with how much they can handle. Hope that's not the reason!

 

[JohnPowers]

I'm with you on the $20.00 bag of 250 kold kutters. They do wear but you have plenty of spares.

 

[steveo27]

How much life (mileage) are you guys getting out of your Kold Kutters?

 

[camdogrs]

What about the alumibites?


http://www.fishusa.com/product/Simms-AlumiBite-Star-Cleats

 

[salvelinusfontinalis]

Korkers rock trax plus. You can dang near run in the Susquehanna, not that you would want to.

 

[Beefheart]

steveo - hard to say exactly how much mileage out of the Kold Kutters, but I would probably replace them twice a year fishing on average once every 1.5 weeks. That's a real rough estimate on frequency of changing them and time on the water. I don't really keep track of that like I should.

Salvelinus - I'll look into those Korkers. Looks like that'd be an especially good solution for wet wading. I wouldn't have to wear my regular trout boots. Wonder how they'd fit on something like Keen sandals.

 

[DavidFin]

Buy dirt bike cleats.

I have the foot tractor boot from Patagonia. The boot itself is light, durable, and super comfortable. The bar system appears to be improved from what I gather in that they're jagged and are shaped at the edges to go into the sole, which helps to save your fly line from getting into the bars and tripping you or cutting the line. However, they will slide sideways on slippery, flat surfaces. The ultimate plus for me is that they have lasted a long time, and I really hate replacing cleats. At this point two of the front bars on each foot have worn out and broken off/in half, but I think it weirdly makes them grippier.

 

[steveo27]

Beefheart wrote:
steveo - hard to say exactly how much mileage out of the Kold Kutters, but I would probably replace them twice a year fishing on average once every 1.5 weeks. That's a real rough estimate on frequency of changing them and time on the water. I don't really keep track of that like I should.

Gotcha. I get about 15-20 miles - 3 to 4 full days - of hard fishing outta mine. Most of its small rocky mountain streams and boulder hoping. I was wondering if everyone else had the same lifespan on theirs.

 

[DGC]

To reiterate the aluminum angle, the wear IS the grip. The wear will be fast and replacement common, especially on little # 8 sheet metal screws. That size just happens to be pretty affordable per 100, and so an inexpensive trial as to whether their grip is for you-or not.

The sideways slipping is true for the bars as mentioned above. I forgot that aspect since over time I habitually allowed for that factor in my wading.

Point taken about the wading staff. I have never used one but should probably start.

 

[bigjohn58]

camdogrs wrote:
What about the alumibites?


http://www.fishusa.com/product/Simms-AlumiBite-Star-Cleats

They are junk and kept ripping out of my Simms G3 boots. I must have lost 10 or more from my boots installed the correct way with urethane even added. My boots are currently back at Simms under warranty.

 

[boychick]

Go with something else, I like the Ovis Posigrip studs. The star cleats were awful. I used the Orvis studs on my last pair of boots and loved them. I switched to the star cleats when I replaced those boots I b/c the store I was at didn't carry the Orvis studs. I was headed out of town the next day and needed studs immediately. The star cleats broke down quickly and, after a few wears, the screws that held them in became loose allowing the stars to move back and forth. I didn't like the star cleats at all. I lived with this for a while, I slipped around a bit, but it was better than nothing. I finally switched back to the Orivs studs (literally just finished putting them in this afternoon).