4X or 5X

[TossinFlies15]

Minus the down poor the fish are getting really spooky now and are very apt to take off, partially because my patience or lack there of in the art of wading, and just from having so much thrown at them. A poor cast that makes a larger splash isn't helping either when I throw a bigger green weeny or some home grown variations that sit on top. So, 4X will offer a better cast, but 5X will be a little less noticeable.. Any insight guys?

 

[jdaddy]

I am not sure what "4x will offer a better cast" means though I do understand 5x being less noticeable. Having said that, the real thing, for me, is that 5x affords me the ability to lay out and control a better drag free drift, particularly if you are talking about "variations that sit on top." Drag is a bigger issue than visibility when deciding between 4x and 5x in my opinion.

 

[TossinFlies15]

the ability to lay out and control a better drag free drift

Thats exactly what I was trying to say. When I go to 5x with a size 14 fly things get a little loud

 

[gfen]

The rule of thumb is divide by 4, and get your tippet size.

That said, I use 5x for most everything on my 4-5wts, til the flies get stupid small, then 6x. For streamers on the 4-5wts, its 4x...same flies on the 1wt, and I'm going to 6x or even 7x.

 

[TossinFlies15]

Fly size by tippet size? because is so I've been way off, i too use 5x for most stuff untill I got tired of sloppy lays with a size 12 fly thats too big.

 

[jdaddy]

i too use 5x for most stuff untill I got tired of sloppy lays with a size 12 fly thats too big.

5x is a darn good all around tippet for most dry flies. Some argue they can use it with 22 tricos, though I have had to resort to a 6x to get a great drift. I don't see any reason one would have a problem with an average 12 dry and 5x tippet. There is a solid movement in fly fishing that says use the largest tippet you can get away with and use length versus reduction in diameter.

So when you say you are getting "sloppy lays" with 5x what exactly does that mean? (and I am serious here, let's keep it clean here).

 

[bikerfish]

tippet size is determined by fly size. big flies, big tippet, small flies, small tippet. that fish will never know the difference in 4 or 5 x, but it might be a pain getting that 4x through the eye of the hook. I always use the biggest tippet possible, less break-offs and less need to play a fish till exhaustion.

 

[jaybo41]

Take the size of the fly and divide by 3 will get you close. Most sizes will fit in at least 2 different tippet sizes.

Check out this chart.

 

[pcray1231]

1. Use as heavy as tippet as you can get away with. I've heard divided by 3, divided by 4, etc. It's not perfect, depending on which end of the scale, amount of current, pickiness of fish, etc. But generally for me:

Streamers - 2x or 3x
Sizes 8-12 - 3x or 4x
Sizes 12-16 - 4x or 5x
Sizes 16-20 - 5x or 6x
Sizes 20-30 - 6x.

2. About the only fish I've come across that I actually think are line shy are steelhead. 99% of the time, they are drag shy, not line shy. Of course, going to finer tippet can help with drag. But so can lengthening the tippet, so I almost always lengthen the tippet before deciding to downsize the diameter. If you're tippets too long or fine, I prefer to upsize the diameter before shortening, but I admit sometimes I get lazy and just shorten instead.

3. Remember, for dry flies and sometimes nymphs, your goal IS NOT to straigten out the leader on the cast, you want slack. A tight leader is guaranteed to prevent a drag free drift. The classic thing you're looking for is S curves, but some people even try to pile up the leader. If you typically fish across currents, one of the keys is to keep your tippet upstream of your fly, which can be accomplished with a reach cast and careful mending.

 

[TossinFlies15]

jdaddy,
I am just talking about the leader/tippet/fly laying down straight and getting curled up on the water almost. Yes a sloppy cast is part of my problem.. also if I can ask what does "I am serious here, let's keep it clean here" I wasn't trying to upset anyone?

 

[WildTigerTrout]

pcray 1231 I would add 7x to the 24 and smaller flies.

 

[TossinFlies15]

Remember, for dry flies and sometimes nymphs, your goal IS NOT to straigten out the leader on the cast, you want slack. A tight leader is guaranteed to prevent a drag free drift.

pcray 1231,
Ahhh slack is what I need more of for a drag free drift, I thought I needed my tippet and leader to lay in a straight line. Thanks!

 

[pafisherman]

Something else to consider that I dont believe was mentioned much is the rod you are fishing. For example my fairly fast 5wt bamboo with easily snap 7X tippet and sometimes 6X. My 2Wt can easily handle 7X and I have even dropped to 8X fishing midges in the flat water. So you may want to consider the rod you are fishing along with the sizes of flies when chosing tippet.
Bill A

 

[pcray1231]

pcray 1231 I would add 7x to the 24 and smaller flies.

I fish my share of midges and trico's. Frankly, I've never used 7x. Out of principle, I wouldn't resort to that unless it was absolutely necessary. I've never found that to be the case. Lengthening a 6x tippet has always done the trick for me.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

Give it a try you might like it! I lengthen my tippet too. The 7X seems easier to me to get a good drift. I fish alot of flat water on two different limestones and try to stack the odds in my favor. I use 7X mainly on the two rods I use for Tricos. They are both medium action. A two and a three weight, so it protects the tippet. Tight lines to you.

 

[TossinFlies15]

pafisherman,

I wish a 4 wt graphite penn rod. I see what your saying but can't exactly translate that to my rod..

 

[troutslammer]

tossinflies , u do want a leader that lays streight most of the time for no other reason than acuracy , especially for wild picky trout that are in a rich stream that don't like to move far for a insect , slack leaders are good for fishing across currents though but acuracy for dry fly fishing catches more fish in my opinion

 

[jdaddy]

tossinflies , u do want a leader that lays streight most of the time for no other reason than acuracy , especially for wild picky trout that are in a rich stream that don't like to move far for a insect , slack leaders are good for fishing across currents though but acuracy for dry fly fishing catches more fish in my opin

I don't think most would agree with that. The use of slack leader presentation in no way affects accuracy. "wild picky trout that are in a rich stream" such as Letort, Falling Springs, etc has so much complex surface currents that slack leader presentation is all but required. It prolongs a drag free drift much, much longer than a "straight" leader.

 

[jdaddy]

also if I can ask what does "I am serious here, let's keep it clean here" I wasn't trying to upset anyone?

It was not directed at you. I was discussing a "sloppy lay" and some board members may read something into that.

 

[afishinado]

lol...when you start out FFing you strive to learn to lay out your line and leader for a perfect cast.....come to find out, that's usually the worst thing to do for both fishing dries or nymphs... :lol: