thread for Deer Hair

[geebee]

Hi Guys,

I was trying to tye up some of Roman Moser's Balloon Caddis on saturday and having problems tying the deer hair down tight enough to stop it rolling round the shank.

i eventually (after a few break offs ) got a few down tight but superglued em down too.

i tried 6/0 and then GSP which worked but is a biatch to dub and built too big a head, so i wondered what you guys use - sizes , material etc.

Thanks

Mark.

 

[J55tyger88]

Take this with a grain of salt...but i put a good thread base down, measure wing and cut before tying down. Take a 1 1/2 loose wraps then snug UP with tension. Go around same spot another 2 times then take 3 wraps THRU the flared head moving towards the shank each turn. Then take a couple wraps under head if possible and finish fly. I do this with 8/0 uni thread and do alright with it. I think its more technique then straight muscling it on the hook with tension.

Your not spinning hair so i dont think you'd need GSP.

 

[mikesl]

I have struggled as well with rotating deer hair. I have only been tying this season, but FWIW I think tyger is right on.
One thing to add - I actually lay a base coat of thread under the deer hair anchor point, where I purposely give it some "texture"

What I mean by that is I run loosely spaced wraps, then come back over at the opposite angle, making a sort of "knurled" surface wiuth the thread. This gives a bit more grip to prevent spinning.

But the biggest part is in the technique of applying good tension on the front side as well as on the back side. My best results are with just 2-3 wraps around the whoel buundle, and then, as tyger mentioned, a few wraps that go through part of the head only.

 

[geebee]

thanks guys, the problem with this pattern is that there is no flared head - the deer hair is cut at 45 degrees and tyed snug to the shank, and then the foam is bound down to it.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r270/Tangoflies/bcad8.jpg

 

[eunanhendron]

the key is to over lap your wraps. loose wrap one time, then wrap the second wrap back over the first.
Hold the hair with a death grip, tighten the thread and then make another couple overlapping wraps.

I watched Steve Fernandez tie an EHC with 5 wraps of thread holding the hair - it works, the right type and quantity of hair is also key

much like dubbing, select what you think you need, then reduce it by half

 

[geebee]

okay, so the consensus seems to be user error, lol. thanks, i'll keep trying.


Mark

 

[SBecker]

Mark,

You have probably watched this, but I figured I would share anyways. If you have not seen this video you will understand him better then me, I am sure. Davie uses Uni 8/0.


Moser Balloon Caddis

Shane

 

[Harley]

I've found this really helpful.
Kelly Galloup deer hair video

 

[MKern]

Buy Roman Moser thread. Even the smallest diameter (like 12/0) is unbreakable with your hands.

 

[MKern]

It is expensive though. When I worked for Hilles and we stocked RM stuff it was like $5.50 for a 30 meter spool.

Can't even begin to estimate the price now, not to mention probably only available at the Somerset show.

 

[nfrechet]

a thread base should help you out but I never let go of the hair until the butt ends are completely covered with thread wraps. seems to stay in place and doesn't rotate around the hook shank

I use veevus 12/0 thread

 

[dc410]

Lots of great tips above. It is definitely more the technique than the type of thread. I found it frustrating to work with deer hair wings as well until I finally learned how critical it was to maintain total control of the hair by gripping it tightly until you have completely tied it in at the butt ends. Once I finally realized how important that this technique was it is not hard at all to keep a deer hair wing sitting neatly on top of the hook shank. Keep practicing. Good luck.

 

[geebee]

until I finally learned how critical it was to maintain total control of the hair by gripping it tightly until you have completely tied it in at the butt ends.

this seems the critical thing mentioned by a few of you.

I really like this pattern for the visibility as well as the bouyancy, but i've never tied it before.

Shane - thanks, that was the video i was following. it probably needs subtitles...

 

[Cold]

Based on the pic, it appears similar to the situation you have on a stimulator before the front dubbing & hackle.

In that situation, I pinch the stacked clump of hair, do a locking wrap of thread around only the hair, not the hook, then two two tight wraps around the hook and the hair over that, still holding the tips of the wing.

After that, I work my way toward the eye, allowing the hair to flare however it likes, until most of it has been caught behind a thread wrap. Then I snip them all down as close as I can get them, then hit it with some cement and either dub over them, or cover with thread.

It's tough to explain without a picture, but think of it as really lousy spinning, just to make sure that each hair is tied down, as opposed to relying solely on tension to hold everything together in a clump.