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Re: Tying for grannoms

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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I didn't do any 12s yet for that pattern. I just checked, and didn't see many feathers that would work well. The 14s are a bit undersized, so I'm kind of in the same boat.

I have some kind of black soft hackle skin that I got on sale at TCO. I honestly have no idea what it is, but I've been using that in place of starling for the larger feathers when needed.

Posted on: 2010/3/30 23:14


Re: Tying for grannoms

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By the sounds of it you will be just fine with your original selection. The water will be up and they will be eating anything reasonable. Bottom line..

Posted on: 2010/3/31 8:12


Re: Tying for grannoms

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Quote:

jayL wrote:
Luckily for me, I have mostly been working on the 14s so far.

I'll limit the 12s and increase the 16s. I suspect you may be right. I like to tie for the occasional freak bug on Penns, so I will bring a 12 or two.


It can't hurt to try a #12. Sometimes the trout will hit flies bigger than the naturals. One of the most skilled fishermen in Centre County said sometimes he uses bigger flies than the naturals, on the theory that the bigger fly is easier to see, and looks like more food, so the trout may hit it in preference to the "normal" size flies. I think that may sometimes work, when the fish are hitting agressively, when they "attacking" rather than "sipping."

But when the trout are getting fussy and selective, many people use flies that are a little smaller than the naturals, on the theory that with smaller flies it is more difficult for the trout to detect a fraud.

I usually try to tie them the same size as the naturals. But I probably get the size wrong a lot. In that case, with a little luck, either of the two theories above may work out for me.

Posted on: 2010/3/31 11:16


Re: Tying for grannoms
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Just a generality on the size of flies. If you meet two fly anglers on the stream and each offers to help you fish. The first angler opens his fly box and it contains flies all in size 10, 12 and 14, and when the second guy's box is opened he has flies that are size 16, 18, and 20....go with the second angler.

Posted on: 2010/3/31 11:39


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2010/1/2 15:17
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I would be the first angler with the big flies , happily catching trout . The size of the flies between a 12 and a 16 are not as important as other factors , that's my personal take on it.

Posted on: 2010/3/31 19:36


Re: Tying for grannoms

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depends on what flys they are , quill gordons , hendricksons , stones , grey fox , caddis , brown drakes , light cahills are ok in those sizes but i wouldn't want to throw a 12 BWO dry during an olive hatch especially late in the year well anytime of year for that matter , size does matter and so does color , switching to smaller flys or only using smaller flys than the natural does not necessarily mean u catch more fish either

Posted on: 2010/3/31 21:35


Re: Tying for grannoms

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From Bozeman
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I tend to be a small fly guy. My go to size for generic attractors is around 16. I almost never go any bigger than 14.

For hatch matching, I tie imitations of the bugs, and attempt to get the size as close as possible. If they are 22s, I tie 22s. If they are 10s, I tie 10s. I just enjoy closely imitating insects.

In looking at blueheron's fly box, it was clear that he's got a style unto himself, and I dug it. He had a lot of larger flies and most all of them had lots of natural colors and fibers, and looked to me like they come alive in the water. I think there's a place for both styles in my box, and I will be duplicating the stuff blueheron showed me. The flies just look like fish food.

Posted on: 2010/3/31 21:45


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
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I caught some fish on #12 grannoms last year at the little j. The hatch was so heavy, that I think the larger fly stood out a little more
But a #14 fly matches them there - and on penns - very well.
When I fished the grannoms on oil and sugar creeks however, they were smaller. And a #16 fly was required

Posted on: 2010/4/1 0:01


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2007/10/7 0:44
From philadelphia
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i think the trend towards small flies helps us old fashioned guys.everybody and their brother throws a size 16 fly out there,and we come along with a size eight and clean up,haha

Posted on: 2010/4/1 8:07


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2008/10/8 0:36
From Florida
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I'm getting ready to tie some grannom patterns as well. For the flies tied with the green egg sack, what materials/shades of green are you using? Caddis Green Or Olive dubbing? Green Weenie (Chartruse) chenille? All of the above?


Quote:

afishinado wrote:
Quote:

DGC wrote:
I am no expert on this hatch but I would carry #16s as well. You know how that goes when a drop in size for whatever reason seems to do the trick.

As to the ESPs there is the usual controversy about what to use for the veil. Sparkle yarn is what is typically called for, but how important that really is, no idea.



Good advice on tying some 16's.

As far as the ESP & DSP patterns, IMO no other fly has more controversy than this pattern. It's a classic battle of the "haves" and "have-nots", or in this case the "catch" or "catch-nots".

The only thing I can say is I swear by these patterns on a caddis hatch. The common thread I see with guys that get blanked or catch little on it is that it's not tied properly and/or the right material is not used. Very few shops offer these flies both tied properly and with the recommended material. Draw you own conclusions.


I have been using the Antron sold on the cards at fly shops to tie mine. Is this the correct material, or should I be using something else?

Posted on: 2010/4/1 9:49
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"When one feels the rush of cold water against his waders, and pits his skill against the natural instincts and wariness of the trout, everything else is lost in the sheer joy of the moment."

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Re: Tying for grannoms
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As I posted, this is the best stuff to use for LaFountaine Caddis. Use it for the overbody, and chop it up into fine pieces and touch dub it rough for the body.

http://www.thebookmailer.com/Supplies/SparkleYarn.html

The long article I posted stated that there are several types of caddis called grannoms, but the long and short of it is that there are light (bright green) and dark (dark green, almost black) species. The wild card is that the bright green ones are that color when freshly hatched and turn darker later on. I would tie both and check the naturals.

It wouldn't hurt (like Jay did) to tie up some peacock herled body soft hackles both with and without a bright green egg sack. A turn of chartreuse chenille should work fine.

If you can't catch 'em with all those flies in your box....just tie on a wooly bugger and have fun. HTH

For those that fish the grannoms, it would be great if we continue this thread during and after the hatch and compare notes.

Posted on: 2010/4/1 10:08


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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GF,

I use a chartreuse green dubbing.

At the bottom of this page, there is a picture of an egg layer.
http://www.flyguysoutfitting.com/grannomxcaddis.html

Posted on: 2010/4/1 10:10


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13629
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Grannoms are darker. Several guys on here swear by a Lead wing coachman for grannoms.

If you are talking subsurface, any peeking caddis with a green collar (the color you described as "green weenie") should work. Sandfly has a nice one on his site.

www.bigmeadowsflyshop.com/images/DSCN6140.JPG

Attach file:



jpg  leadwing_coachman.jpg (45.93 KB)
49_4bb4a9508e036.jpg 400X321 px

jpg  grannom.jpg (67.64 KB)
49_4bb4a9cd712af.jpg 800X533 px

jpg  sandfly caddis.JPG (16.73 KB)
49_4bb4aa8b2d2b8.jpg 321X300 px

Posted on: 2010/4/1 10:15


Re: Tying for grannoms

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2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
Posts: 838
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There sure seems to be a lot of interest in grannoms this year.

Goodfortune, Afishinado mentioned the Bookmailer (and provided a link, see above) as having the material (sparkle yarn) for the veil of the deep sparkle pupa (DSP) and Emergent Sparkle Pupa (ESP). As far as I know, the sparkle yarn sold at FFP is also apropriate. Call and ask. It is very cheap, and FFP will likley get your order to you very fast--they have that reputation for a reason.

Afishinado, I somehow didn't notice your discussion regarding sparkle yarn before I posted about the veil material controversy. That was not intended as a shot across the bow but after looking at it in sequence it seemed that way. Given how cheap and easily available sparkle yarn is, I see no reason not to use it and plenty of reasons based on testimony on its effectiveness to do so.

As mentioned, there are dark grannoms and light grannoms. In the north central and ne, the light, apple green grannom seems to be what produces the action. The dark grannom is heavy in the central PA limestoners except Spring Creek (that could change). They are also present in many other streams, just not in the same quantity in most cases. Also, just because a stream has not had a fishable hatch in the past, doesn't mean it can't show up this year in a big way. If stream quality is improving accross the state, and I think it is for the most part, then "new" bugs are always possible. If you look at the various historical reports, you notice that April 8 or 9 is about as early as the big central PA limestoners see the emergence. Further south the emergence can already be happening, but since much of the freestone water is closed, little notice is taken. I have a hunch there is some decent grannom activity right now on these southerly and less noticed freestones.

It would be logical to expect other bugs to be present during the grannom and maybe even mask it. There could still be BWOs around, and just as likely if not more so, Paraleps (Blue Quills).

If I fish this grannom hatch, I will be hoping for conditions allowing for a dry/dropper setup. You often hear reports that the emergence is one of many bugs but no risers, implying staying with subsurface or damp patterns. But you never know, and with the tandem you have it covered anyway.

Dry fly action is often considered an evening affair, which makes sense since these are typically wild brown trout waters (for the dark grannom) and the egg laying bugs on the one hand and low light levels on the other should be your optimal chance for finding risers. Getting them to pick your fly out if there is a multitude is another issue.

Posted on: 2010/4/1 12:30


Re: Tying for grannoms
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Nice post, good info DGC.

Posted on: 2010/4/1 12:46



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