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Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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Hello all,

I have been battling with my dry flies for awhile now. I have noticed that some no matter what I do ride incorrectly. I have recently been dropping flies in a glad bowl of water upon completion with varying results. It seems my catskill, EHC, Humpy, and even sometimes emerger and parachute flies sit awkwardly. Sometimes cocked to one side sometimes the tail sinks and the fly rides vertical. I have decided to suspend my dry fly tying until I can cure this issue. Since I have a lot of time on my hands today I believe I will add pictures of the fly completed fresh off the vice and then a picture of the fly upon dropping it in water. I am dropping the fly from about 3-4" to the bowl.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 10:37
_________________
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout."


~Irish proverb~


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/12/17 13:40
From Downingtown
Posts: 87
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Many times the trout don't mind those things. Injured and damaged naturals are easy meals.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 10:47


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4355
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One thing I do to help this problem, is tie all of my mayfly imitations with divided tails. Definitely helps the fly to land and ride properly.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 10:50


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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Yellow Humpy Hot off the vice
[img width=300] photo IMG_1194_zps99fd8b81.jpg[/img]
Fish View
 photo IMG_1195_zps0214ae94.jpg
Upside-Down View
 photo IMG_1196_zpsf4ae1ad3.jpg
Top-Side View
 photo IMG_1197_zps20fb4d65.jpg
First Drop in Water
Pic doesn't do "the LEAN" thats going on justice it is far worse than it looks.
 photo IMG_1198_zpsf7015b7c.jpg
Drop 2. Tail is already sinking.
 photo IMG_1199_zps77d5930a.jpg
Another Common fly position after a drop.
 photo IMG_1202_zpsafda9e3e.jpg
Decided to try trimming hackles
 photo IMG_1203_zps6084eef4.jpg
1st Drop after trim
 photo IMG_1204_zps93b2e5a1.jpg
Fly with 4x Nylon Tippet
This shows the most common lean that I'm seeing in my flies
 photo IMG_1205_zpsbb83b183.jpg

Posted on: 2013/2/1 12:50
_________________
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout."


~Irish proverb~


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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Also I am using Whiting Pro Grade feathers for Hackle and am using a hackle gauge. To me it seems that the hackles may be a little large.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 12:51
_________________
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout."


~Irish proverb~


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

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2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 6448
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It's hard to tell from the photos, but the problem could be that you may not be wrapping your hackle completely perpendicular to the hook shank the whole way around.

Just take a look at the fly to see if the hackle is wound in the same plane the whole way around.

If not, pay attention to that when winding the hackle. Keep the feather at a right angle to the hook shank as you wind.

I'm not sure that's what

Posted on: 2013/2/1 15:04


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5660
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looks like the hook point is not breaking the surface tension in the last pic. hackle looks good to me. in the pic from above it looks like the hook is bent, are you putting to much pressure on hook when tying and putting a bend in the hook, hooks with offset points will lay over everytime. "length of shank+eye=curve and point"for a balance. make sure A=D like in picture if D is to long fly will tip over..

Attach file:



jpg  dry fly.JPG (24.84 KB)
112_510c23fa3dd3c.jpg 610X341 px

Posted on: 2013/2/1 15:10
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sandfly

So many Fish, So little time !!!
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Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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I don't believe i'm putting too much pressure on and I feel like I am wrapping the hackle perpendicular. I believe I'm going to have to make a trip to come visit you SandFly so you can give me tips at the vice.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 15:19
_________________
"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout."


~Irish proverb~


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5660
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bring your tool and vice and come for a weekend..bring your food too..

Posted on: 2013/2/1 15:24
_________________
sandfly

So many Fish, So little time !!!
from the outer edge of nowhere
fly tying and fishing ghillie..
https://www.facebook.com/BigMeadowsFlyShop




Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

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2010/5/28 0:25
Posts: 677
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Curious. What material are you using for the hump? Doesn't look like the original, which used deer hair. Is the weight of the hump too heavy, creating a higher center of gravity, causing it to roll over?

I also split the tails on my dry flies, act as out-riggers.

Hump? What hump?

Posted on: 2013/2/1 20:58


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

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One more observation: If you look closely at the hackle size, some of the barbs are almost 2 times the width of the hook gap. Try a smaller hackle in relationship to the hook gap.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 21:32


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2009/12/17 20:43
From Souderton PA
Posts: 910
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What kind of hook is that? The gap looks large to me. I have no idea what the problem is, but here are some thoughts on the pictures that may or may not help.
I think the the tails are fine. They are heavy and well splayed. You shouldn't need to split on this pattern if the tail is tied in like you have. The wings look poorly defined (no offense, I don't mean ugly, just cant see if they are posted). Did you post them independently? If so, be careful to set them in the same plane (ie. dont have one leaning forward or backward relative to the other. If you look at your 2nd and 4th picture, the wings and hackle seem unbalanced from one side to the other. This, combined with the top heaviness of the pattern, and what looks like a wide gape hook that is not penetrating the surface will all combine to cause the fly to roll. If the hook is not penetrating because the fly is riding on the tail and hackle, try either decreasing the size of the hackle (which will help get the hook lower) or moving the wings back a bit to shift the center of mass (which will keep the hook up but help it ride better). Finally, the hackle looks uneven to me in that some of the tips seem longer and others shorter. Make sure you have an even base to to wrap the hackle on and try not to overlap any wraps.
I'm sorry to sound so critical. It's a nice fly. I'm just pulling it apart to hopefully get you where you want to be with it.
Mike.

Posted on: 2013/2/1 21:57
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Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 4355
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I also agree that the hackle is a little long - and pushing the tail of the fly down into the water.


Posted on: 2013/2/2 0:02


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2009/11/5 1:46
Posts: 164
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Don't forget that the leader has something to do with how the fly floats. The fact that you're hanging it over edge of a bowl or leaving it off might be might be most of the problem.

The hackle length is not the problem. Although modern fashion is to make it shorter, classic Catskill proportions were 1.5 to 2 x the width of the gape. They rode just fine back then.

Neither is the fact that hackles aren't 90 degrees to the hook shank the problem. Vince Marinaro's thorax flies were deliberately tied that way, and didn't have any reputation of not floating correctly.

If you want to muck with proportions, try to get less weight on top of the hook compared to what's under it -- a thinner hump, less dense wings and a heavier hook might all be things to look at.

Personally, I wouldn't worry to much about it. Fish often prefer cripples, and a number of flies nowadays are tied make sure they lie on their side.

Posted on: 2013/2/2 1:32


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9156
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YokMonster,

Dropping flies into a bowl of water is a poor way to judge how/if a fly will float. Try tying them on your tippet and actually fish them. The humpies you tied in the pics are fine. On the water, they should float like a cork. Good job.

Posted on: 2013/2/2 7:57



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