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Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2009/12/17 20:43
From Souderton PA
Posts: 882
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Quote:

redietz wrote:
The hackle length is not the problem. Although modern fashion is to make it shorter, classic Catskill proportions were 1.5 to 2 x the width of the gape. They rode just fine back then.

Neither is the fact that hackles aren't 90 degrees to the hook shank the problem. Vince Marinaro's thorax flies were deliberately tied that way, and didn't have any reputation of not floating correctly.


Good points Redietz, but there are a couple of things you need to keep in mind with those examples. Many (not all) Catskill tyers shifted their wings and hackle back on the hook, and some (not all) claimed to do this to shift the mass back and force the fly to ride on it's tail and hackle. They were also obsessive about tailing material and hackle quality. So you can tie a fly with a 2x or greater hackle length, but you need to make other changes for it to float properly. Vince Marinaro did indeed deliberately tie his thorax duns with the hackle crossing at a 45 degree angle. But he was a meticulous tyer. He did this to get an x-like profile that provided 2 points of contact (like outriggers). He also would clip a V out of the bottom of the hackle collar to increase this effect. Lastly, he also moved the wings and hackle back on the fly to shift the center of mass. In his case, he was trying to prevent the fly from riding on its tail, and I don't think this effect could be achieved with a "standard" wound hackle collar.
Youghness, I'm convinced that the hackle is the problem. I bet if you cut a V from the bottom of the hackle collar the fly will sit upright. If that works you at least know what to focus on to fix the problem.

Quote:

afishinado wrote:
Dropping flies into a bowl of water is a poor way to judge how/if a fly will float. Try tying them on your tippet and actually fish them. The humpies you tied in the pics are fine. On the water, they should float like a cork. Good job.


I thought from his original post that he was having problems on the stream and that's why he resorted to dropping them in a bowl of water. I agree that this is a poor way to judge if the fly floats well on the stream. There are plenty of factors that will alter the float on the stream. But a fly that flops over in a bowl is unlikely to be "fixed" by those factors. So while this fly might float like a cork and catch fish , it does not float like a humpy.

Posted on: 2013/2/2 11:06
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Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

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2012/1/9 19:50
From Etters,Pa
Posts: 723
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Well I started to post my thoughts on this yesterday but wanted to include some pics so I figured I would copy and paste what I started after I got some pics. Well I got busy and finally got around to it today so here it is.

I have a few suggestion's for you. First off get rid of the water. Creek water and tap water are like oil and alcohol. Tap water has softeners in it and your flies will break the surface film easier. Second is what I do most often when I tie Catskill style flies. I do the bounce test after EVERY Catskill style dry I tie. What's the bounce test? After tying a fly I throw it up in the air and let it bounce on the table and it should land hook point down. If it dosent I cut either a shallow "v" or a deep "V" in the hackle in line with the hook point. Shallow or Deep depends on the fly and the material used. In the first pic the fly on the right has a deep "V" and the fly on the left has a shallow "v" In pic 2 you can see they both sit the same. I've never had a problem using this method.

Attach file:



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jpg  image.jpg (732.12 KB)
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Posted on: 2013/2/2 13:19


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

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2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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Thank you all so much for your input. The HUMP and wings are actually bleached elk hair. I am going to continue to attempt to aid my flies. I welcome the criticism, it is a big help.

Posted on: 2013/2/2 22:41
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Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2012/2/21 9:20
From Virginia/SWPA
Posts: 138
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Also the hook is a size 12 TMC 100

Posted on: 2013/2/2 22:46
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"Listen to the sound of the river and you will get a trout."


~Irish proverb~


Re: Infamous Water Test for Dry Flies

Joined:
2006/9/11 11:30
Posts: 595
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All the comments above are valid. I like the cutting a vee approach. The fly looks pretty good to me.

Posted on: 2013/2/3 12:36



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