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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

Joined:
2006/9/21 0:02
From Pittsburgh
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I also think that wings are quite important on dry flies, and never tie any without them. You can probably get away without them in riffles, but in flat clear water, I don't think so.
I've always thought along the lines that if you're going to do it,- do it right. And a mayfly without wings just isn't complete IMO.
And they're really not hard to put in. I would suggest you start out with a cahill, or any other fly that calls for mallard flank wings.
It's quite easy to work with, and with a little practice, you should have nice looking wings in no time.

My method for mayflies - tail first, then wing, body, and hackle

Posted on: 2007/12/17 20:45


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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I checked my book by David Hughes, he teaches the wing first method. I was wrong. Must have been that sh*tty panphlet that I read when I first started.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 21:10
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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I'm kinda surprised to hear that ya's tie the tail in first. It will work but you can get better looking results by doing the wing first and its not any harder. In fact some will use the tail butts to seperate the wings. I think doing the tail first you run a risk of not having a good transition from tail to wing, not a big deal if your dubbing the body but on a quill or floss body it can make a huge difference in how it looks. Your also wasting wraps. Do the wing first tie you tail in at base of wing then run down to barb and dub forward. The other way your wrapping thread down to tail the going forward to do wing then going back down to start dubbing. The only time I don't do the wing first is on 28 royal wulffs. Then I'll do the tail and body first then the wing and then hackle. If you want a smooth transition doing the wing first is the only way to go.

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jpg  Quill G.H.jpg (0.00 KB)


Posted on: 2007/12/17 21:27


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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It's just habit for me and the way I prefer now.
I'm sure there is some backing to what you are saying.
I don't see how tying in the tails second make a smoother body. If anything, I can judge where to snip off the excess wings material to smooth it out.
I do know that I use more thread and therefore more time, but I tie all split tails (unless tied for a customer or a fly shop) and prefer to have a little extra hand room to place them correctly. Plus if you wrap to the wing area, tie in the wing and wrap back and tie in the tail, but them have to tie over the butts of the tail then wind back, how is that more thread. I think it's about the same.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 21:39
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2007/8/10 22:09
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You do have one less pass of thread, its easyer to show then explain. If what your doing works for you then thats fine, just keep tyin them flies.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 22:08


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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I went through it in my head and the difference seems to be about a 1/2 shank length difference.
I'll try and explain:
Wing 1st:
.5 to wing, .5 to tail, .25 to cover tail, and .25 back to bend = 1.5
Tail 1st:
1 to bend, .5 up to wing (covering tails), .5 back to bend = 2
Just trying to figure it out. But my way seems to be more complicated, but I think it's 1 of the bad fly fishing habits that I'm not going to try and break. There are others I have to fix first.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 22:15
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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Its no big deal but it helps to keep the wraps at the bend to a bare min. When you do a quill body that one extra wrap of thread can give you a little trouble in starting your body.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 22:22


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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I don't tie wings on anything below 16. If I do, they are bright orange.

Guess I should look in to using them more often. Either way, most of my dries are cdc or parachute anyway.

Posted on: 2007/12/17 23:02


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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2006/9/11 11:41
From bucks cty
Posts: 997
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Quote:

sandfly wrote:
Wings should be tird in first, then the tail, body and hackle..when doing the wings first you can adjust them easier to fit...I also use a gauge for the wing sizes, so does plumbob and he wins alot of compitions...its a tool for porportioning your fies..


Sandfly; That makes sense to me and that's how I've been starting, wings first. I have the Amato proportion chart and I just finished tying about 200 nymphs for next year. By the end I was getting my proportions down well which is helping with my initial dries.

Plumbob; I should be doing some tying with Lou this week so I'll see if he can give me some help. Althought the last time he taught me it was his sculpin pattern that has so much lead I was thinking of using one of my baitcasting rods.

What I was trying so far is wood duck wings. I think my proportions are ok I just have trouble centering the wings and splitting at the right angles. I am becoming a master of cripples.

Since I fish Penns a lot I have taken hatch charts for Penns and am going to work on the mayflies. Starting with a light Hendrickson in a 14. Figured starting with a middle size fly would be a good idea. (Penns runs from large green drakes to small BWO.)

Thanks for all the inputs. Once I get this solved I'll be posting a number of other dry fly questions on bodies (especially quills) and also pattern colors.

Posted on: 2007/12/18 7:53

Edited by tabasco_joe on 2007/12/18 8:32:06


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5569
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I feel sorry for you tying with Lou...lol...plumbo should go for a lesson with lou too...lol...

Posted on: 2007/12/18 8:08
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sandfly

So many Fish, So little time !!!
from the outer edge of nowhere
fly tying and fishing ghillie..
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5569
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Once you get below a sz. 16 it doesnt matter as much but i like to still use something..a post seems to work fine..

there was a study done on a fishes veiw of the surface and the wing tips showed first, most fish keyed in on that..I think it was done on the upper delaware..

Posted on: 2007/12/18 8:11
_________________
sandfly

So many Fish, So little time !!!
from the outer edge of nowhere
fly tying and fishing ghillie..
https://www.facebook.com/BigMeadowsFlyShop




Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

Joined:
2006/9/11 11:41
From bucks cty
Posts: 997
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One of the patterns I want to tie up is BWO in 18 - 20. Would you go with something like a medium dun or grey poly post?

Posted on: 2007/12/18 8:46


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
Posts: 22338
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Quote:

sandfly wrote:
Once you get below a sz. 16 it doesnt matter as much but i like to still use something..a post seems to work fine..

there was a study done on a fishes veiw of the surface and the wing tips showed first, most fish keyed in on that..I think it was done on the upper delaware..


I don't think this is quite true. My understanding is that trout will see a mirror of the underwater as the fly or natural approaches. The first thing they see is a break of the meniscus by the hackle and tail on catskill flies or the body/hook on comparaduns or emergers. The first appearance of the wings would occur when the fly enters a window of a fairly small diameter as the trout approaches the surface. From more than a foot or two down, the trout never sees anything other than the mirror. It is true that when a trout begins to see anything of the top of the fly (that is, the parts of the fly above the surface), it will see the top-most part first, so at that point, if the trout has not already committed to the take (sterile-water brookies, other aggressive-feeding trout, or any trout in fast water), it may notice the absence of the wing shape and choose to pass on your offering.

So, if this is so, what does it mean? It means that while wings are often not essential, there will be occasions where having them will thwart a refusal from a finicky trout. If you cannot master wings to your satisfaction, buy some of each pattern with wings, then tie your own wingless. Use your own ties and if you are certain you are throwing the right stage, size and color and are still getting refusals, then tie on the purchased fly.

This is my story and I'm sticking with it. keep in mind, however, that I have no earthly idea what I am talking about.

Posted on: 2007/12/18 9:44
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Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

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Posted on: 2007/12/18 11:36


Re: Importance of wings on dry flies?

Joined:
2006/9/13 22:36
From Tioga co. formerly of bucks co.
Posts: 5569
Offline
If trout see a mirror then how can they see us??? its a mirror around their window which at a 2 foot depth is like 3 ft. round..take a snorkel and goggles and lay under water on your back...been there, its amazing what you see and don't..


Jack, the mirror effect only works with flat water as in a pond..

Attach file:



jpg  fish1.jpg (0.00 KB)
112_476852aa7d71d.jpg X px

jpg  fish2.jpg (0.00 KB)


Posted on: 2007/12/18 17:57
_________________
sandfly

So many Fish, So little time !!!
from the outer edge of nowhere
fly tying and fishing ghillie..
https://www.facebook.com/BigMeadowsFlyShop





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