A question about fly dubbing

W

Wmass

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Sep 17, 2006
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I know this belongs in the fly tying section but I posted here because I didn't think anyone would see it in the fly tying section for a few days.

I have noticed recently that the dry flies that I have tied get boggy and that the dubbing on the thorax/abdomen ends up soaking up alot of water.

I typically lay the dubbing on my thread, dubb it, and then tie it on. I am wondering if I am either using to much dubbing or not enough dubbing wax.

Anyone with any suggestions and tying techniques to stop the fly dubbing from getting water logged so quickly?
 
While some of the thread I have is pre-waxed, I haven't used regulat dubbing wax in many years. I use very small amounts of dubbing...usually just enough to coat the thread and then make as many wraps as I need get the shape and size for the dry fly. Nymphs and others I do differently. Anyway, the most common tying mistake with dry flies is too much dubbing.
 
i try to use synthetic dubbing when i can, in my opinion it absorbs less water than natural dubbing
 
wmass:

sounds to me like you need to use better floatant
 
Dear Wmass,

What are you using for dubbing? Mink, beaver and muskrat make excellent dry fly dubbing because they are water based critters and their fur is naturally water repellent. Rabbit, squirrel, oppossum, etc make better wet fly and nymph dubbing because they are aren't naturally waterproof.

Likewise, not all synthetics are made for dry flies. Poly-propolene dubbing floats like a cork, but many synthetic blends are made for nymphs and wets and soak up water like a paper towel. It can be difficult to tell which is which because the colors are similar. Maybe you mixed up some of your dubbing?

I always use wax, and I always lick my fingers before I twist on the dubbing. It helps to make a very tight rope, and I try to dub my dry flies sparsely and tightly but I'm not always succesful.

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
TIMMURPHY

I typically use spectrablend synthetic dry fly dubbing and only rarely do I mix in some muskrat fur. I like the way the spectrablend dubbs but I have found that I get these boggy flies. I think I may be dubbing to much on.

Also, do you have a link to poly-propolene dubbing that works well?
 
Dear Wmass,

I only have one catalog in front of me to refer to, but Fly-Rite is probably the most common poly dubbing. SuperFine is another brand name. I'm looking in Fly Fisher's Paradise catalog, 1-814-234-4189 is their number and they have both, but most fly shops will carry one or the other, or in many cases both.

If you call Fly Fisher's Paradise they will set you up with what you need. They have pre-packaged dubbing selections that come in a box with a dozen of the most common colors available for about $ 13.00 to $ 15.00 depending on the material you want. I've been dealing with them for 30 years and can recommend them 100%.

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
Solidly in Tim's camp minus the finger licking. :-D


I use wax all the time and dub VERY sparsely. I LOVE Superfine and use it for 90% of my dries with dubbed bodies.

My wake up call was looking at a real mayfly compared to my creations; mine were WAY too fat. I now strive for the same profile I desire in my women and as a result dub very skinny and tight bodies.

:cool:

Maybe your hackle is partially to blame as well. It may be too short, too sparse or too soft.

When all else fails; Frog's Fanny can float a penny. I swear by it!
 
Tightly wound synthetic dubbing is the key. Like Bamboozle, I always use dubbing wax; I too will leave the spit to Tim. I’ve found that synthetic dubbing with longer strands makes it easier to wind a small amount of dubbing tightly around the thread. Run a few long strands of dubbing parallel with the thread and twist tightly. You may want to consider a dubbing loop for a tighter wrap on larger patterns. Besides being slim and more watertight, tightly wound dubbing also gives more of an appearance of segmentation to the body.

Another good point that Bamboozle made is that nearly all flies are tied too fat. I find myself using more quills and turkey biots for mayfly bodies. I find it easier to get both a slim profile and segmentation with quills and biots. Good luck.
 
Dubbing can be tricky but remember that less is more. When you dont think you have enough have dubbing in your figners you most likely have pleanty. I love Super Fine and use the heck out of it. In addition, the less dubbing you use the easier it is to add to the thread without the use of wax and wet figners. So without droning on and on Ill say to use less dubbing and your problem will most likely be solved. Good Luck.
 
Hey, Tim, looks like you and me are the only ones who like our drys finger licking good. :-D

I think it was Vince Marinaro who wrote that for drys the dubbing should only "dirty" the thread.
Coughlin
 
Wmass:

One thing I forgot to mention on the tight (fly) body thing: When you wrap thread; each wrap puts a 1/2 clockwise twist in the thread.

Therefore, if you want tight dubbing; spin or twist your dubbing on counter clockwise to take advantage of the natural thread twisting.

If you want looser dubbing twist it on clockwise.
 
Be careful of the so called beaver, muskrat dubbings..most have been washed and lost the oils that make them water proof..if you can get some on the hide and not tanned would be better. when you dub a good dry the thread color should bleed through the dubbing.....always use the right color for the fly not just black...

A good dry fly doesn't need floatant !!!!!
 
A good dry fly doesn't need floatant !!!!!
Click to expand...

I've always used floatant unless i tie CDC for wings or on some of my foam, deer or elk hair patterns . When wouldn't you need floatant otherwise? Or should I ask what materials don't require it?
 
I always use floatant as well. The biggest reason is that, while my flies float rather well on the first several casts, once its been chewed and slimed by a fish, they are much easier to revive if they have been initially treated with floatant. If they're not treated, you need to tie on a new one.
 
sandfly makes an excellent point, the oils that are produced when the animal is livining will disappear in time
 
Coughlin wrote:
Hey, Tim, looks like you and me are the only ones who like our drys finger licking good. :-D

I think it was Vince Marinaro who wrote that for drys the dubbing should only "dirty" the thread.
Coughlin
Click to expand...

Dear Coughlin,

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised that nobody but us licks our fingers when we apply dubbing? There are some dubbing materials that can only be dubbed with wet fingers. I learned that trick from an older friend of mine who has long since passed. He never even bothered with dubbing wax or pre-waxed thread and he tied beautiful well proportioned flies. Even his soft hackled wet flies floated better than many other people's dry flies.

Slobber rules! :-D

Regards,
Tim Murphy :)
 
I'll we my fingers if i'm using dubbing like hare's mask or muskrat or some other short hairlike dubbing. Synthetics I don't as much because I can pick them up in longer strands, even at the minimal thickness. But as I said before I don't use wax so the wet fingers work well for gripping and placing he finer natural materials.
 
I also lightly lick my fingers when dubbing. I kind of just stumbled on this myself and never saw it suggested anywhere else. In fact I mentioned it in a post a while back when someone was looking for advice on getting tighter dubbing, and didn't get any comments on it, so I thought that I was the only weird one. Glad to find out I'm not! I'll also go along with the superfine dubbing for tight bodies. And of course use as little as possible. I don't normally bother with tacky wax.

Bamboozle, that's sounds like a good tip on the counter-clockwise twist. I never heard that before, but it makes sense. Is that looking at the thread from above or from below?
 
licking the fingers can give you Rabbit Fever, from the hide..Been there done that, and still lick..The proper way is to use a wet sponge in a shallow dish so you don't get it...Believe its not fun...I should follow my own advise but sometimes i don't feel like getting up to go get the sponge... :-(

Tularemia (also known as rabbit fever or deerfly fever) is an infectious disease in ticks and rabbits that is caused by a bacterium (Francisella tularensis). The disease was first described in Japan in 1837. Its name relates to the description in 1911 of a plague-like illness in ground squirrels in Tulare county, California (hence the name tularemia) and the subsequent work done by Dr. Edward Francis. Tularemia occurs throughout North America and in many parts of Europe and Asia. Francisella tularensis is found worldwide in over a hundred species of wild animals, birds and insects. Some examples of animals, other than rabbits, that carry tularemia are meadow mice, ground hogs (woodchucks), ground squirrels, tree squirrels, beavers, coyotes, muskrats, opossums, sheep, and various game birds.
 
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