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Re: codorus trophy trout

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2006/11/10 8:32
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The irony in that is that getting them to try the new, lesser known or generally unknown places is difficult because they have not heard of these places. Why Codorus is so lightly fished though is beyond me as a fisheries manager and as an angler. I had a gentleman accompany us on two different electrofishing surveys there over the years and he kept saying "I don't know why I keep fishing the Yellow Breeches."

Posted on: 2/24 18:50


Re: codorus trophy trout

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While pressure may be light some of the time, there are plenty of other times when the stream is fully utilized (i.e. all parking full, etc.) It also tends to draw a lot of anglers up from Maryland - you see MD plates all the time.

As someone who fishes both in and out of the regs area, I don't really think the regs are doing that much, if anything, in terms of size and numbers. Things seem pretty consistent everywhere and seem to be driven by habitat.

Having regs in place though, does help drive home the point that this creek is unique and worthy of extra attention. That's helpful in educating everyone - anglers, landowners, and the general public.

One thing some folks (including me) aren't crazy about is the use of the word 'Trophy' in naming the regs. Especially since the cutoff for harvest is only 14" - hardly a trophy. The concern is that the name suggests an abundance of such fish and encourages their harvest. Their numbers are limited and we'd rather see the ones with the genes and smarts to grow that big get more chances to reproduce. In a stream that size, they're especially visible and vulnerable during spawning.

Posted on: 2/24 19:30


Re: codorus trophy trout

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2016/4/4 12:23
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This section of stream along with others along the Codorus need to be
cleared and cleaned of falling debris. It seems as though the leaders of the current TU have no organization as in past leader to do stream clean up. They would rather spend the monies raised to support there summer picnic then put it to use doing productive stream work. Instead of trying to be a politician the current President should work on collective efforts within his chapter to do stream work ! Past leader are what made the fishery what it is today and that needs to continue in order for the Codorus to remain a productive fisher.

Posted on: 2/25 7:26


Re: codorus trophy trout

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Quote:

Chutney wrote:
This section of stream along with others along the Codorus need to be
cleared and cleaned of falling debris.


Downed trees in streams is referred to as large woody debris and is very beneficial in creating pools and cover for trout. And counter-acting channel incision.

There are many efforts underway throughout the US and other countries to restore the quantities of large woody debris in streams to closer to their natural, pre-disturbance levels.

In nearly all streams in PA the quantities of large woody debris are much less than they would have been historically.

During stream cleanups, people should remove trash, but not remove large woody debris.

Large woody debris should only be removed when absolutely necessary to prevent damage to infrastructure.

Looking at it from just a fishing perspective: the biggest trout in the creek are probably living under those downed trees.



Posted on: 2/25 7:49


Re: codorus trophy trout

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Quote:

Mike wrote:

Why Codorus is so lightly fished though is beyond me as a fisheries manager and as an angler.


I think you already gave the reason in any earlier post:

"With the length of that stream that has been posted over the years..."

The reason more people don't fish it is probably mostly due to the access difficulties. Some sections are posted, others not.

It's all private land. It's hard to know where you can fish and where not. A where to park without making a landowner upset.

If the stream was flowing through public land, where people knew that access for parking and fishing was assured, the stream would be fished much more.

But, I was there one time on a weekend in the spring when there was a decent hatch and rising trout, and there were a fair number of anglers there.

Posted on: 2/25 8:08


Re: codorus trophy trout

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2016/4/4 12:23
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I would agree with you in strategic location. However when downed debris retracts the flow of the stream and allows for sediment to build up this is not productive and is why we loose hatches. If you fished the Codorus in its prime you would understand where I’m coming from. There was a day when you could wade through the section of the “tank” that the stream bed was nice gravel and it held lots of fish. Today the section is like quicksand and is no very fishable except for bank fishing. We need to keep falling debris clean so the flow can maintain and keep the bottom clean of sediment.

Posted on: 2/25 8:46


Re: codorus trophy trout

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Troutbert,
What you describe would discourage people, but to my knowledge the portion of the stream within the existing TT limits is 100% open to public fishing except in fall, where one larger property is closed for hunting purposes. I also noted a discussion on this Board about posting near the upper end of the TT area a couple of years ago and the WCO checked into it. Again, to my knowledge that situation was favorably resolved. If anything I have said in this paragraph has recently changed, I would welcome a response to the contrary so that the situation could be investigated.

Additionally, the low usage that I described above during the specific time periods that I mentioned could not have had anything to do with posting because my observations were made in unposted, previously popular stretches. I would add that it could not have been because of poor fishing either, because the catching was outstanding with spinners.

Posted on: 2/25 9:32


Re: codorus trophy trout
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2006/9/9 19:16
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Yeah, TB is out of touch on the access and parking. If you find the TT section on a map and just drive to the closest areas to the stream you can park there is parking. As Mike said the lower end had/has an access issue in the fall but its usually clearly marked when its open and not.

Plenty of stream, plenty of fish. Unfortunately on the smaller side. I believe its due to the meager flows of late, Not sure what the flow regimes were in the good old days but over the past ten or so years its been below 50cfs as a norm and probably closer to 35cfs. That leaves for far fewer and less quality big fish habitat areas. Thats what I think the problem is. Not that the Codo has a problem. its a great little wild brown trout stream. I think people remember a 17"er they caught or a 20"er they saw shocked in a survey and expect that to be the norm.

Just because you find a part of the stream "hard to fish" doesn't make it a bad section. It makes it a nursery and refuge area for larger fish or smaller fish more vulnerable to predation. Even posted sections do that. Some mixture of posting, unfishable or difficult to fish areas is good for a stream especially if it holds reproducing populations of wild fish.

Its like taking the pediatric ward out of the hospital to make more beds for the old folks. sooner or later there will be no old folks.

But the biggest reason the pressure is "light" and people "fish the breeches more" is, wait for it....Its not stocked!!!!!!!!! most people, me included when fishing a stream outside of a hatch will gravitate to a stocked trout stream for the simple reason they have a better chance of catching fish. I am not saying the Codorus should be stocked, it shouldn't, But there is no need to over analyze why. Its simple.

My question about the current regs is, Is it the goal of TT regs to "Produce" Trophy Trout or is is an advertisement that they are there? I mean what is a fisheries manager saying when they check that box and get the signs printed? Yeah there are plenty of 14's in here, lets kill em? or Maybe if we harvest the 14's there will be bigger fish here? I guess I am just a dummy that must follow white trucks...Sounds like a good place to include in the keystone select program...You would get your big fish, lots of traffic and perhaps even MORE posted water.

Sometimes you just gotta leave some places alone. Micro managing these "relatively popular" rural streams under special regulation that run through private land is a powderkeg. Let the local stakeholders manage the access and just provide law enforcement services so long there are no population crashes, its all good.

To be honest, I have only bee to Codorus once in the last few years, I fished it regularly at the turn of the century,(see what I did there) and I found it too easy and predictable. I never got run off buy a landowner, never had toruble parking, and never found "too much wood or downed trees". I did get stuck in the milkshake tanks a few times. Mostly the upper tank tho.

Some great habitat work had been done on that section and CodorusTU has certainly been actively representing it. As opposed to the past when I think the meetings were the only activities going on besides fishing. But we should not be throwing stones at the hows of volunteers efforts. If you are a concerned stakeholder go to a meeting and make some suggestions rather than poking current management of a volunteer organization in the eye on a message board. Thats just sour grapes! Sheesh!

I am gonna make it a point to fish there more often before Mike transfers it to the Keystone Select Program. LOL. Good Luck with that Tom!

Posted on: 2/25 10:46
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: codorus trophy trout

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2009/4/19 23:09
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More feedback...

Fortunately, the lower end of the TT section is no longer closed in the fall. The township owns it now and its considered a public park.

On the upper section- unofficially, if you park downstream and walk up, staying in the stream corridor and out of the fields, you'll probably be fine. I say, unofficially because the landowner (who is a nice and very reasonable guy) ultimately has the final say. In other words, folks can't go up there and say that they're allowed to fish there because they read it online somewhere. This applies to any water and, as usual, is based on courtesy and common sense. His biggest issue in the past has been people parking up there and blocking access to his fields - so don't do that.

I agree with Mo's point that a hard to fish section isn't necessarily a bad section, for the reasons he mentioned.

Other than that, there's only so much that can be done over there. Most of the land is people's active farmland, and they just want to be left alone and manage it as they see fit. They maintain a good riparian buffer, allow public access, and the creek has been a healthy wild trout stream for decades while little has changed. TU will continue to look for opportunities to do habitat improvement wherever the landowners are receptive - and new projects are in the planning stages.

If it was up to me, I'd cross 'Trophy" off of the signs, introduce some more large forage (sculpins!) preach landowner relations and pray for enough precip to keep Lake Marburg full - and then leave it the hell alone! I'm just thankful to have such a quality wild trout fishery in such an unlikely location.

Posted on: 2/25 11:33


Re: codorus trophy trout
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Quote:

CodorusTUTom wrote:


If it was up to me, I'd cross 'Trophy" off of the signs, introduce some more large forage (sculpins!) preach landowner relations and pray for enough precip to keep Lake Marburg full - and then leave it the hell alone! I'm just thankful to have such a quality wild trout fishery in such an unlikely location.


So thats a no on the Keystone Select tom?

Posted on: 2/25 11:38
_________________
Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: codorus trophy trout

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2009/4/19 23:09
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Ummmm...that is correct!

Posted on: 2/25 12:05


Re: codorus trophy trout

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2010/7/6 20:36
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My experience in the politics is limited I will say this. From the stand point of someone who has fished all over this great country for fish big to small salt to fresh. Codorus creek is a top notch fishery. Could it be better? Sure but so can alot of things. Its primary hatch can be great, the fish can be at least as big as any other PA stream and the pressure is not horrible. If you have never fished it come on down I think it will open your eyes. Nymphing can result in double digit numbers alot of days. Its a good place to fish. Its a short drive for me and just as productive as anywhere else.End of story for me.

Posted on: 2/25 12:42


Re: codorus trophy trout

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TT came about through the effort, discussed by some here in the past, that the PFBC took on to simplify regulations. Selective harvest regs were the better regs for the Codorus because a 12 inch length limit better matched the size BT that the stream was able to produce in some quantity. When Selective Harvest regs were eliminated from the tool-box, the next best reg that still allowed some harvest, but was also a special reg, was the TT reg.

To complete the history, it was a DH Stream, stocked to the gills, prior to TT and it was in short order under DH that the stream went from a Class C to a Class A and beyond. Prior to that it was stocked with adult and fingerling trout, and was a very popular stocked trout section. Prior to that is was stocked only with adult trout. I started the fingerling stockings as an experiment around 1982 or so. This was one BT stream in which angler harvest kept the wild trout substantially depressed, as evidenced by the quick response of the wild BT to the DH reg, despite intensive stocking under that reg.

Posted on: 2/25 13:28


Re: codorus trophy trout

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I remember some very cold March days shoving float boxes over and through the deadfalls putting in those stocked fish. Back then, I don't think anyone could've imagined what we were in store for, and how truly fortunate we would be to gain such a remarkable fishery.

Posted on: 2/25 15:02


Re: codorus trophy trout
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Quote:

Mike wrote:
To complete the history, it was a DH Stream, stocked to the gills, prior to TT and it was in short order under DH that the stream went from a Class C to a Class A and beyond. Prior to that it was stocked with adult and fingerling trout, and was a very popular stocked trout section. Prior to that is was stocked only with adult trout. I started the fingerling stockings as an experiment around 1982 or so. This was one BT stream in which angler harvest kept the wild trout substantially depressed, as evidenced by the quick response of the wild BT to the DH reg, despite intensive stocking under that reg.


Interesting stuff. Thanks for the history tour.

Posted on: 2/25 16:36



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