Yough River - Wild Trout?

[LetortAngler]

Put a tail-water reservoir in Tennessee it becomes a world class trout fishery. Put one in the desert of New Mexico - it becomes a world class trout fishery. If you put one in western Pennsylvania at 184 foot deep with consistent temps - you get a fishery that needs stocked with fingerlings because it can’t support wild trout? Nothing against the fingerling program cause I think it’s great. And I realize the Yough has had a history of pollution. But if many of the tribs can support wild trout, and river planted fingerlings flourish , then what is holding this fishery back from become a wild trout river? What is missing?

 

[Tigereye]

Management perhaps?

 

[Dave_W]

It's an interesting thing to ponder and I don't think anyone really has a definitive reason why wild trout have not emerged in the Yough (perhaps they're there on a limited or seasonal basis?).

Some streams and rivers just seem to have all the criteria, but for some mysterious reason wild trout don't seem to take hold even though fingerlings can thrive.

I think the North Branch of the Potomac may be a similar situation. Although different watersheds, their headwaters arise nearby and perhaps there's a subtle aspect of water chemistry or some combination of natural factors that is problematic. Who knows?

It would not surprise me if we do see sometime in the future the Yough begin to transition to wild trout and phased off of fingerlings, as has happened on some other PA waters, such as the Little Juniata.

I'm generally a fan of fingerling programs even though they have a rather poor track record in PA. I sometimes wonder if a different strain of hatchery or fingerling fish might produce different results. For now, we can be thankful that fingerlings have produced such a fine fishery in this river.

But yeah, it's a head scratcher.

 

[DaveS]

Could be legacy sediment in the riverbed itself and limited spawning tribs that enter the cool water section.
I’ve been seeing some very pretty fish this year in particular.
I am of the opinion that this river makes small positive gains yearly. Maybe someday it will reach the tipping point and flourish.

I may have to get DaveW to do a follow up stream sampling from our last trip.

 

[markp]

Western soils are generally alkaline in nature creating a favorable trout environment. Much of tennessee also has a high abundance of limestone, their state rock, creating robust growing conditions for invertabrates. The areas that are drained by the Yough are acidic by nature with generally low buffer, add to that lots of AMD in the watershed is not a great recipe. As AMD is cleaned up you will start to see more and more trout, definitely will be a marathon.

 

[troutbert]

The amount of wild trout in the tribs is pretty limited. And there may not be much spawning habitat in the main river.

And the 80F water temps in late summer aren't good. If the flow management was improved to avoid that, I think the trout population would improve.

But here's a question no one has discussed. How many wild trout are in the Yough right now? Does anyone know?

Remember the arguments just a few years ago about how many of the adult trout in the Little Juniata were wild and how many were from fingerlings. Some of us fishermen thought most of them were wild. Some others thought they were nearly all from fingerlings. The PFBC didn't know for sure. It took a study involving fin clipping to settle the question. Most of the adult trout were wild.

 

[LetortAngler]

The Yough gets that warm in the upper/middle section? The area I’m referring to is the 8 mile stretch from Confluence down to the falls. I’ve never seen it warmer than 70 degrees in late summer when the lake turns.. Idk, maybe it does.

“How many wild trout are in the Yough right now? Does anyone know?”

+1

 

[dryflyguy]

I just fished there again yesterday - at 2 spots.

The first one was about 5 miles below the dam.
I took a water temp there of 65 degrees at 5 pm, with an air temp of 93. I'd say the river is handling this heat wave quite well.

Interestingly, I caught 2 brookies in the 10 inch range, that sure looked wild to me. First time I recall catching WT anywhere on the river
There are 2 tribs in this section rated class A.

I then moved up to a spot about 2 miles below the dam, and got a water temp of 58.
And caught all stockies, which is the norm in my 30 years of fishing there.

Several years ago, I talked to a person who guides on the river.
And he claimed there are some wild trout present

 

[LetortAngler]

Very cool you caught some natives out of the main river. The upper Yough might actually be cooler than the tribs at the moment. Perhaps they moved down into the main for thermal refuge? Thanks for the response DFG.

 

[Mike]

If the 1977 Ltl J survey data had been used it would have also shown that the vast majority of trout were wild, not fingerling stocked. Also trout numbers were very much lower than they are today, but if memory serves, the fish were bigger on average back then.
Numbers were very good below Spruce Ck back then. Upstream from Spruce Ck...fairly low to moderate density.

 

[codym21]

floated it three times the last couple days, caught small browns, only fished streamers, didnt care to bobber, caught some very nice smallies though.
Curious to hear from someone who knows it better, ive heard by late in the summer the lake is pushing 70 degree water

 

[dryflyguy]

codym21 wrote:
floated it three times the last couple days, caught small browns, only fished streamers, didnt care to bobber, caught some very nice smallies though.
Curious to hear from someone who knows it better, ive heard by late in the summer the lake is pushing 70 degree water

That's correct.

The dish charge from the dam is like 50 degrees right now.
And will slowly rise the rest of the summer, to about 70, usually by late august - as the lake runs out of cold water

So then you want to quit fishing the tailwater for trout - likely until late fall, when the lake water starts cooling off again.

Meanwhile, if the weather cools earlier, you can go downstream like 10 - 20 miles and find cold water again.
Sort of a reverse tailwater effect

One of many quirky things about the Yough....

 

[sidthemuffinrunner]

If I could figure out how to post pictures on here I'd show you some fish that are suspiciously wild looking. I know there have been attempts to improve spawning habitat with gravel dumps. The Casselman blows in a lot of silt, which doesn't help. Hard to say if there are wild trout, but if there were (if someone could actually confirm) I wouldn't be surprised at all.

 

[DaveS]

It has been reported to me that YOY fish have been found in several tribs.
I believe some wild fish are present.
Not a lot, but some.

 

[fcarp]

the lake flips later in the season so yes it sends out water that is too warm for trout. Usually Aug/Sept time and cools off again in Oct.

 

[dryflyguy]

DaveS wrote:
Could be legacy sediment in the riverbed itself and limited spawning tribs that enter the cool water section.
I’ve been seeing some very pretty fish this year in particular.
I am of the opinion that this river makes small positive gains yearly. Maybe someday it will reach the tipping point and flourish.

I may have to get DaveW to do a follow up stream sampling from our last trip.

Yeah - the rainbows in particular, that I've caught there, have been fun to catch

Nice size - averaging 14 to 17 inches.
Very well colored pink stripe
And full of fight.

Don't know if they're holdovers. Or stocked like that

 

[Acristickid]

The casselman has poor water quality and is very warm which flows in about a half mile below the dam. There are also numerous orange water gushers that pour into the yough along the bike trails if you bike it. That’s why I don’t think it is better fishing river. No doubt giants lurk there.

 

[dryflyguy]

acristickid wrote:
The casselman has poor water quality and is very warm which flows in about a half mile below the dam. There are also numerous orange water gushers that pour into the yough along the bike trails if you bike it. That’s why I don’t think it is better fishing river. No doubt giants lurk there.

But they odd part about that, is that the hatches are better below the casselman inflow
The half mile section between the dam and that junction seems almost void of aquatic insects in my experience
And that's always been very puzzling to me.

I've bike fished the river all the way down to Connelsville.
And the bugs just seem to get better the further away from the dam you go.

Of course, now the water is too warm in those lower stretches for trout.
That river is a real paradox

 

[Dmomeyer]

I have often wondered the same thought.

I am 56 years old, live in Westmoreland County and fished the Yough since the mid to late seventies.

Recently, I discontinued fishing the Yough because of inconsistency. On an outing I would catch a dozen fish, the next is total skunk with perfect conditions. I now take boomerang trips to Little J

Venture Outdoors out of Pittsburgh sponsors very nice group outings on the Yough. The group leader is Dale K. is very Familiar with the river, leads projects with Chestnut Ridge TU on the Yough, guides on it.

The Yough has a nice Brown Drake/Iso hatch the lasts for a couple months. I have had success blind fishing a size 8 brown drake with a hares ear on the dropper. The rainbows in the heavy flow put a great fight.

The water is very acidic. If you turn a rock over, there are few if any nymphs. A bass fisherman told me the lake is to acidic to support a healthy bass population. The Casselman runs through mine and farming country.

In summary, it could be a world class fishery if managed; pump lime in the water and mange the water releases to regulate temperatures.

 

[Dmomeyer]

Yes, I have noticed that also. I have seen midges in the area from the release to the Castelman, however, I do not see many food sources for the fish in that area.