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Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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From Lancaster County
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Posted on: 11/1 18:16
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Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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2006/9/9 8:53
From York
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Well, another good reason to get that kayak I’ve been looking at. Can access that area with it. Hopefully something can be worked out going forward.

Posted on: 11/1 20:13


Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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From Lancaster County
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They'll be able to hide fish kills a bit easier now.

Posted on: 11/2 5:54
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Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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2012/2/16 18:55
From Nowheresville, PA
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"They'll be able to hide fish kills a bit easier now."

-------------------------------------------------------------------

True. They certainly have not helped the environment. What a terrible company. What a shame that they have any control of anything especially our river.

Posted on: 11/2 6:32
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Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 3497
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Quote:

JimKennedy wrote:
Brother anglers,

Preservation of public access to the Susquehanna at Brunner Island may be possible.

There is a strong likelihood that a landing site at Brunner's Island is endowed with the legal trappings of a riparian public access.

In English please: That is to say, it may have once been essentially a public landing / public harbor on the Susquehanna. The York County land records website shows what appears to be a road bed (looks like modern Board Road) crossing the power company territory. It bears a striking similarity to the roadbed shown on an 1876 map that can be seen at:

http://www.yorkblog.com/universal/2015/04/23/more-on-eibs-landing/

Moreover, the power company territory is identified in historical documents as Eib's Landing, then Day's Landing, then New Holland, then Saginaw. As a practical matter, a component of this territory is that in the 1870s it would have been a hub of the lumber trade on the Susquehanna River.

For those of us seeking a place to launch a boat and do a little fishing, the situation is that if the road end shown on the historic map of Eib's Landing was a river access used by the general public (as would be indicated by it being the end of what appears to be a public road), then it constitutes a public landing.

Once a territory becomes a public property, it is unusual for that public ownership status to lapse. First, the public (that is to say, the state), does not have to pay taxes on the property, so it cannot be lost that way. Also, adverse possession (squatters rights) are extremely difficult to establish against a government (otherwise people would be setting up squatter camps on public lands all over the place and ending up with free hunting and fishing camps, among other things).

In addition, the Susquehanna is considered one of Pennsylvania's "Great Rivers," which means the riverbed and water are owned by people of the Commonwealth.

If it can be established that a public landing / river harbor existed where Board Road (or just that a landing existed) once ended at the Susquehanna River, members of the public at large have a very legitimate claim on river access at Brunner's Island.

A group of determined citizens, with the help of a civic-minded lawyer can gain the upper hand in situations where a claim can be established. If nothing else, a large corporation can be persuaded to make territorial concessions in return for certainty when it comes to ownership rights.

Unfortunately, it is likely to take a hard-nosed approach. As Foxtrapper mentioned, there are many big corporations that seem to believe they, not the Commonwealth, are owners of the river.




Apparently I am missing something.

Sure the waterway is public domain, but just because an access and a road appears on early maps doesn't mean squat (pun intended).

Back in the day, many of the roads were privately owned, and if the state never bought it, it isn't public.

Furthermore, if it was at one time public, it doesn't mean that it didn't revert to private ownership at some point. This has happened many times, especially in dead-ends like that.

My brother lives on a private road that I am sure would appear on old maps. Was used for lumber and oil.

I can show you many roads in PA and Ohio, some of which were public at one time.

I can show you public roads on old maps that don't even exist anymore, and the land is now privately owned.

If the Government doesn't need a road anymore, and doesn't want to maintain it. At one time it wouldn't be unusual for said Government entity to deed it over to the surround landowner(s). This was at least true back in the day.

I don't know the area, and am playing devils advocate to some extent (for educational purposes). And I am not saying this isn't worth looking into. It is. All I am saying is that you may be making false assumptions. Since we are talking about dry land, whether it was public at one time is not extremely relevant IMO. I think one would need to research the deeds to determine who actually owns it.

Posted on: 11/2 7:56
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Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

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2014/12/9 19:26
From Lancaster, PA
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Drove to York Haven today to check out the boat launch at Brunner Island. As I drove into the launch area a Regional Police Officer followed me in with his lights flashing. I thought Wow they are serious about closing this, but it seems I just made an illegal right turn before getting to the launch entrance. He was very nice and just gave me a warning. He said they are not aware of the launch area being closed.

Later I drove down past the power plant and the access roads to the wet lands had the gates closed. The gates did not appear to be new. I don't know if they were open in the past or not. I did not try to access the warm water area. I drove down Gut Road to Saginaw. The boat ramp at Saginaw was still open.

I only ever use the upper boat launch area and that was no different than in the past.

Hopefully this access will remain open.

Posted on: 11/3 20:36


Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County
Moderator
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2016/1/24 14:30
From Gettysburg
Posts: 1930
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Quote:

KGStine wrote:
Drove to York Haven today to check out the boat launch at Brunner Island. As I drove into the launch area a Regional Police Officer followed me in with his lights flashing. I thought Wow they are serious about closing this, but it seems I just made an illegal right turn before getting to the launch entrance. He was very nice and just gave me a warning. He said they are not aware of the launch area being closed.

Later I drove down past the power plant and the access roads to the wet lands had the gates closed. The gates did not appear to be new. I don't know if they were open in the past or not. I did not try to access the warm water area. I drove down Gut Road to Saginaw. The boat ramp at Saginaw was still open.

I only ever use the upper boat launch area and that was no different than in the past.

Hopefully this access will remain open.


Thanks KGS - always a good thing when folks investigate and get "eyes on."

Posted on: 11/3 21:09


Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

Joined:
2006/9/9 8:53
From York
Posts: 79
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I checked it out Thursday. The boat launch area at the north end was open. In fact there was at least one boat trailer there and a few cars. Fox 43 News was there as well. Fox 43 did have a short blurb about the closing on the evening news. They did contact Talen who gave “liability issues”as a reason for closure. At least that’s what Fox reported. As KGS stated the wetland gate was closed and locked. It is not a new gate but has been open in the past. I tried to drive down to the warm water area as the front gate along Wago Road was open. However their was a security guard parked there. He politely told me that the warm water area is closed and the gate which is located at the south end of the access road is closed and locked. No access allowed. We talked for a bit. He didn’t know the reason for the closures. Said he would be stationed there this week just to inform people of the “change”. He also said he thought they were going to put jersey barriers up at the boat launch access. I might check it out again this week but it looks to me like it’s a done deal.

Posted on: 11/4 7:01


Re: Susquehanna River - Access Denied, York County

Joined:
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From Lancaster County
Posts: 379
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Posted on: 11/4 9:23
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"The rattler escaping the cold house,
the fluttering unknown gods that I nearly see
from the left corner of my blind eye, struggling
to stay alive in a world that grinds them underfoot" - Jim Harrison



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