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Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7749
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The state is asserting that any stream crossed on this list thestate has juristiction over whether they can cross, it doesn't make marcellus drilling fair game.

Posted on: 2013/1/22 11:13
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Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
Posts: 838
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I guess this would be about the 4th list of this type. PA put together this for the Little Juniata case:

Commonwealth Findings of Fact for Little J case

Scroll to paragraph 35 for discussion of the various lists used by DEP in conducting their business which includes issuing permits for dams and other obstructions.

Note the Oberdorfer list, paragraph 40, was the result of extensive historical research.


By the way, if you are into PA economic history, the use of arks and such, etc., a number of pdf documents from this case are good reads. This one is fairly well organized:

Plaintif's Proposed Finding of Fact

You never know the day may come when those routes come in very handy.

Posted on: 2013/1/22 14:44


Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2009/5/29 16:32
From Nicholson PA
Posts: 268
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Wow didnt this start about the gassers,Great info DGC.I hate to say it but if the gas needs to go under a creek it will go and as walking down the creek most people dont really care but are sick of cleen up other peoples trash.I know that most of the tunkhannock and meshoppen are in the middle of private land and they are not stocked in thoses locations.I Just want winter to end and spring to get here soon.

Posted on: 2013/1/22 15:35


Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13556
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Lets see if this works. Here are the 3 actual lists. 1st, all streams with a declaration of public highway (actual scan of the original law). 2nd. Oberdorfer's list. 3rd is the Coast Guard list.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... dreExKJ5CYPfD3MXQ72zN_gEw

Posted on: 2013/1/22 21:54


Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2009/5/29 16:32
From Nicholson PA
Posts: 268
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Looks like the creek bed fight has been going on for a very long time.200 years and counting.

Posted on: 2013/1/23 12:35


Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13556
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Yeah.

The law itself is settled. If it's navigable, the streambed is public property up to the low water mark. Landowners own only above the high water mark. Between the low and high water marks, nobody owns it, but an easement exists in favor of the public (just like the X number of feet adjacent to a public road).

If it's not navigable, then the entire streambed may be owned privately. The water itself is still public. So the public can't wade through, but they can float through, provided they never touch the bottom.

The arguments are all about what is navigable and what isn't.

Posted on: 2013/1/24 8:52


Re: New list of Public owned streambeds

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7749
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It actually goes back much longer then 200 years. It goes back to England. But it's interesting because the courts have never allowed a state or Commonwealth to give up ownership of surface waters.

Posted on: 2013/1/25 8:31
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