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Re: Little J rainbows

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2010/8/5 20:05
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According to the last web report on the J based on electrofishing surveys from 2010, no wild bows were captured. How could they increase in abundance in that short of time...illegal stocking!

Posted on: 2012/8/24 22:45


Re: Little J rainbows

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2012/5/4 9:12
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I cannot understand why people don't want the bows in PA streams? I like browns a lot but there are times when I prefer catching wild bows to browns. I love how acrobatic bows are and I love fishing the fast riffles and currents that they tend to hang in. I feel like wild bows are like gold in PA because they are so rare. Will never forget how the first bow took off on me on the Upper Delaware River... it was definitely memorable.

Posted on: 2012/8/24 22:46
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Re: Little J rainbows

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mason,
head scratcher indeed. I caught what i believe were wild bows that spring just downstream where they electroshocked, yet they reported none.
could be the bows moved to cooler, deeper waters in other parts of the river when they shocked. The shocking study was done when the water was low and a bit warm if I recall correctly. The numbers have increased quite a bit in three years though. May be an event (flood or otherwise) flushed an unusual number out of Spruce or other tribs. As you and others wrote, can't rule out plantings.

Posted on: 2012/8/24 22:55


Re: Little J rainbows

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I have no problem with a mixed population of wild trout in the Little J. Honestly, I think separate breeding times could make the system more robust to adverse weather or other events.

Posted on: 2012/8/24 22:55
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Re: Little J rainbows

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2011/8/21 15:39
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I would prefer a good mix. Its just something that I plan on keeping an eye on over the next few years while I am home visiting/fishing. The J is an amazing brown trout fishery, and I hope it stays that way. There is nothing wrong with the mix of bows in it right now, I feel that the bows are a great compliment to the browns.

I enjoy hearing others opinions and experiences on this topic.

I am pretty sure there isn't much(if at all) illegal stocking going on on the J...
Spruce gets stocked heavily which is where the bigger fish come from. Even if it was illegally stocked, that still does not show where the wild bows came from. There are definitely wild bows in the J, and once you hook them they are scrappy little fellows that really put up a fight.

3 to 4 years ago, it was a treat to latch into a bow on the J. Like I said, this year its just become almost expected.

Posted on: 2012/8/24 23:00


Re: Little J rainbows

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In my opinion a mix is bad. It only serves to reduce brown trout, which are currently thriving in the J. There is a carrying capacity for every stream, and based on the the number and sizes of fish reported from the 2010 survey, he Little J has reached that point. In fact it would likely benefit from some harvest. No...I do not typically harvest wild trout, but density dependent factors can limit potential of special regulation areas (for example many small fish). Also, there are very few wild rainbow fisheries in PA. Those that occur and are self-sustaining to the point of garnering a directed fishery are in true limestone spring streams. The J is a limestone-INFLUENCED stream and not a true limestomer unlike the Falling Spring or Big Spring. I just think that it is a "pipe dream" to think that bows will establish in the J or other streams in PA that do not already have established populations. When is a great brown trout fishery enough? This is not Montana. I feel that the J is fine without bows; however, this is just my opinion. Good discussions on this thread!

Posted on: 2012/8/24 23:32


Re: Little J rainbows
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From Chester County
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Quote:

jabink84 wrote:
I have been catching the heck out of browns from 10am-3pm for the last week. Browns are opportunistic feeders. Granted I am fishing streamers and kinda head hunting for the bigger more agressive fish.

I have been seeing at 3 browns to 1 bow number other than today. And that is consistant over the whole river from grier school down. Todays trip was in Barree/rothrock section. fished the whole way up past the spring ridge property. 3 days ago, I fished the same stretch of water, and landed 11 fish in the same runs. All but 1 were browns.


My experience in mixed brown & bow waters like the upper D as well as out-west, is that browns are much more likely to hit streamers than rainbows. The results of your fishing is not surprising.

Very interesting discussion. Bows and browns co-exist in many trout rivers. Since neither is a native fish, I see no problem with it. Bows are more likely to inhabit the faster water, and are more likely to feed during the day. May spread out the availability of fish and fishing opportunities on the J.

Also, Albie made a good point about different spawning times and I'll add different spawning habitat will make for a healthier river overall.

Diversity of [in]vasive species Good thing I guess.

Posted on: 2012/8/25 6:03

Edited by Maurice on 2012/8/26 6:49:56


Re: Little J rainbows

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I don't think there are very many "wild" rainbows in the J - meaning I don't think there is ANY self sustaining reproduction. The ones that are there are the progeny of the spruce creek stockies. Those fish spawn in the fall and produce a huge number of small rainbows. I don't think the rainbows have much of a foothold in the J other than the fact that they are stocked in huge numbers every year. It's a brown trout stream.

Posted on: 2012/8/25 8:08


Re: Little J rainbows

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I think midnight hit it on the head. Wild-born in the stream, but not self-sustaining without intervention to establish a firm foothold.

The idea of diversifying to guard against events adverse to successful spawning has merit. This past winter and spring people who fish the J regularly (i mean 1-2X a week) were reporting an unusually high number of quality fish (12' or more and robust) and surprisingly fewer small fish (YOY in the 8'-9' category) A lot of theories were discussed, including a banner growth year, but in the end most concluded that the high water flood event in December of 2010 adversely affected the young of the year browns. That flood scoured the bottom of some areas with a high concentration of redds. A year's broad may have been adversely affected. This in turn allowed the previous year's brood to fatten up.
evidence for this could have come from a planned electro shock of the lower river, but that had to be canceled due to warm water. The electroshock study was to have the lower river to the frankstown branch declared a class A fishery. The last designation did not declare the entire lower river class A. Anyone who fished downstream knows it's all class A. I was looking forward to the results too, because more bows are caught in that section- or at least I should say I have caught more in that section.

Posted on: 2012/8/25 9:41


Re: Little J rainbows

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I fished the gorge today and caught 5 bows and two browns. Some very nice sized and hard fighting rainbows. I'm not complaining...

Posted on: 2012/8/25 22:52
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Re: Little J rainbows

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2011/9/16 10:59
From Johnstown, Pa
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I fish the J quite often and I too have noticed more rainbows in the last 2 or 3 years. From what I have been told there coming from Spruce Cr. I've noticed that there not just in a specific area they seemed to be well scattered out on the river. Have not caught many rainbows over 14" but I am sure that will happen soon enough just from what I caught and what I am hearing from others. As far as having rainbows in the J. I think the fishery will be able to handle it. There was some talk at one time by the Little Juniata Association about raising rainbows to stock,but I think that was put on the back burner for a while till more studies were done. Well, now that they are in there lets see what happens. I welcome it.

Posted on: 2012/8/27 14:13


Re: Little J rainbows

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what wetfly wrote is correct that the idea of establishing wild rainbows in the J through introduction was batted around a bit. Before people get too alarmed about the prospect of the LJRA stocking the j, "raising rainbows to stock" isn't quite what some may think it means.
The idea was to obtain wild rainbow eggs and establish a wild rainbow trout nursery in one of tribs to see if they would take hold in the main branch. They were not talking about the PFBC trucks coming to dump a bunch of raceway pigs into the J (wetfly, I know that's not what you meant, but it could be read that way).
The idea was tabled because concerns were raised and the area they would use for culturing the fish is not ready. I suspect they are taking a wait and see approach to the outcome of the obvious increase in bows on the river.

Again, if anyone has constructive opinions or important information about this topic, bring it to the attention of the LJRA on its website or to its monthly meetings.

Posted on: 2012/8/27 14:43


Re: Little J rainbows

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In the late 1980s, Marty Marcinko, then head of the PFBC's trout management program, told me this:

In the southern Appalachians, rainbow trout displacement of brook trout is a big problem.

To avoid the possibility of the same thing happening in PA, it is probably not a good idea to spread wild strain rainbow trout around.

I agreed with him then, and still hold the same view today. If you do a little Googling, you can find articles about rainbows displacing brookies in the Smoky Mountains.

The Little J itself does not hold brook trout, but some of its tributaries do. And the more populations of wild rainbows are established in PA, the more likely it becomes that they will be introduced into our freestone streams that support native brookies.

Posted on: 2012/8/27 15:51


Re: Little J rainbows

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Quote:
In the southern Appalachians, rainbow trout displacement of brook trout is a big problem.


This is no joke. Most of the little mountain streams in the south that would hold brookies are full of rainbows.

Not sure how likely it is that this would happen in PA. Seems like so many rainbows have been introduced into PA streams that if they were going to gain a foothold it would have happened already. Certainly we wouldn't want to see PA brook trout displaced in the way the southern brookies have been. It's very extensive.


Posted on: 2012/8/27 18:24


Re: Little J rainbows

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Quote:

midnightangler wrote:
Quote:
In the southern Appalachians, rainbow trout displacement of brook trout is a big problem.


This is no joke. Most of the little mountain streams in the south that would hold brookies are full of rainbows.

Not sure how likely it is that this would happen in PA. Seems like so many rainbows have been introduced into PA streams that if they were going to gain a foothold it would have happened already. Certainly we wouldn't want to see PA brook trout displaced in the way the southern brookies have been. It's very extensive.



It has to do with the strains of trout introduced. The PFBC hatchery strain rainbows are a highly domesticated strain, so rarely reproduce.

Where wild rainbow populations exist in PA, it has been because of private stockings of rainbow trout that are closer to wild strain fish.


Posted on: 2012/8/27 20:27



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