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Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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2012/2/3 16:30
From Clarion co.
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I got a laugh out of a guy (stream side) he told me those fingerlings were wild rainbows from a spring run......

Posted on: 2012/12/1 22:07
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Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

PennKev wrote:
As far as wild trout go there are plenty in that stream, just not o much in the C&RFFO area. Again habitat is a likely issue there. Yeah there's probably poaching there and a million other places too, but if there is a lot of poaching going on it's being done by piss poor fisherman IMO.

Kev


PennKev,

I've seen so many bait containers, snelled hook pkgs., etc. in the special regs area over the years, it's ridiculous. A few years ago I almost got into a fight with a guy fishing bait right off of Rt62 outside Polk. When I threatened to report him, he had few choice words to say, told me to be sure to check my car before I leave, then he hightailed it. Luckily, my car was parked right at the pulloff on 62 and nothing was done.

Now outside C&RFFO, especially above Rainbow Bridge, I agree with you, not so much... but only because, poachers follow stocking trucks. IMO, poaching is a huge issue in this water. Especially early season.

Posted on: 2012/12/2 11:26
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Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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2011/5/9 15:37
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I decided to stop by on my home home from the camp up there and fished by the pumphouse and down off 62. They were all along the stretch by the pumphouse up into the open regs section, and there were a bunch down off 62 also.

Of course I had to make a few casts while I was there, but I didn't want to bother them too much and limited myself to only a couple fish. One of the fish looked to be a rainbow, but I didn't get a really good look at him before he escaped. I saw silver, blue, and pink. Could have been a fingerling bow that got mixed in, or a wild fish, or my eyes were just playing games on me.

In all honesty even if they don't get a lot bigger than they are now I would still rather them keep with the fingerling stockings instead of adults. They definitely spread themselves out more and inhabit the little runs the adults wouldn't fit into, or just simply don't go into on that stream. It just seems a little more natural than fishing for 12-15in bows only in a couple holes imo.

With that said I believe they may also compete with the smaller wild fish more so than the adult stockies would. I'm not sure how this will turn out. On a positive note hopefully it will help with the poaching, unless they're after fish sticks lol.

Posted on: 2012/12/2 14:44


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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I can second what ghost said. I have found a lot of night crawler containers and hook wrappers along the ffo stretch.

Posted on: 2012/12/2 19:28
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Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Anyone ever hear the "official" reason they stocked fingerlings in the regs section on Little Sandy?

Anyone fish there lately? Are they still there? Spread out?


Posted on: 2013/4/10 14:39


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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I fished there in the beginning of January. They were spread out more so than the adult stockies would be, but that's because since they're much smaller they would hold in the shallower runs and such were the adult fish couldn't/wouldn't hold on that stream. I'd really like to fish it once this spring and definitely next fall right before they stock it again and see how they are then.

Posted on: 2013/4/10 17:10


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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2006/9/9 11:22
From New Castle, PA
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Quote:

elguapogurn wrote:
Anyone ever hear the "official" reason they stocked fingerlings in the regs section on Little Sandy?

Anyone fish there lately? Are they still there? Spread out?



Suposedly the fingerlings are fin clipped and the PAFBC will be surveying for survival rate. This is according to Oil Creek TU. OCTU is also planning more habitat improvement projects for the stream. I would like to see the PAFBC contribute to the cause as well. Holding water is the only thing the streamis missing IMO. There are already good numbers of wild fish, particularly in the streches that have good structure. I would be suprised if the stream was not at least class B. Though, I would suppose that depends on the stretch surveyed.

Kev

Posted on: 2013/4/10 18:38


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

bikerfish wrote:
the local TU chapter may throw some fish in there also, but like others have said, why? that stream has some great wild trout fishing, need to quit the stocking and let people learn how to catch real fish. plenty of other marginal creeks around that people can fish for stockies.
saying that, I do know there are some browns in there that would happily eat those fingerlings!


It's a bit of a mystery because it's otherwise open, stocked water. So, this good wild trout or fingerling-supplemented wild trout fishery will work over just a 1 mile segment? That doesn't make sense when every other fish outside of this section is aggressively targeted in a medium to smallish stream with ready access.

Little Sandy, while being easily accessed, is quite out-of-the-way from prying eyes. Poaching around the pumphouse is huge, and too many of the people who stock (sorry to say this, but this is my experienced and it left me dumbfounded) are oblivious OR complicit in the poaching. Stocking mature trout begs for poaching and maybe the Fish Commish is avoiding that.
JBeary

Posted on: 2013/4/10 20:13


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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[/quote]

Suposedly the fingerlings are fin clipped and the PAFBC will be surveying for survival rate. This is according to Oil Creek TU. OCTU is also planning more habitat improvement projects for the stream. I would like to see the PAFBC contribute to the cause as well. Holding water is the only thing the streamis missing IMO.

Kev[/quote]

That isn't just your opinion, its a fact. There is SOOO much skinny, flat and slate bottomed, featureless water on Little Sandy... such a shame. you can see where years ago, stream structures were placed but now are eroded-behind. And this lack of structure in a mature woods. I don't know what could be done without a backhoe to do some serious ground breaking in the stream. A jack-dam won't make structure in solid rock. Also, the pump-house pool has that separate channel draining maybe as much as 1/2 the water from the stream. And the best stream work habitat is below this.

Little Sandy, from below the pumphouse to the tressel will be a tough fix!

Posted on: 2013/4/10 20:21


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

Sylvaneous wrote:


That isn't just your opinion, its a fact. There is SOOO much skinny, flat and slate bottomed, featureless water on Little Sandy... such a shame. you can see where years ago, stream structures were placed but now are eroded-behind. And this lack of structure in a mature woods. I don't know what could be done without a backhoe to do some serious ground breaking in the stream. A jack-dam won't make structure in solid rock. Also, the pump-house pool has that separate channel draining maybe as much as 1/2 the water from the stream. And the best stream work habitat is below this.

Little Sandy, from below the pumphouse to the tressel will be a tough fix!


Which is why I don't fish the FFO much except for the pool below the tressel. Even this pool has changed quite a bit over the last two years. First filling in significantly with gravel after extreme high water, then the face of the dam collapsing.

Posted on: 2013/4/10 22:32


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

Sylvaneous wrote:
[ Poaching around the pumphouse is huge, and too many of the people who stock (sorry to say this, but this is my experienced and it left me dumbfounded) are oblivious OR complicit in the poaching. Stocking mature trout begs for poaching and maybe the Fish Commish is avoiding that.
JBeary


Yeah, it doesn't help that there is a long flat stretch that gets a bunch of stockers dumped in it right next to the boundry of the open water. Almost an invitation. But as I said earlier, I still have no trouble catching a decent number of fish on LSC so I'm not too worried about it.

I suspect TU will dump some adult sized fish in but I would rather they not. I would like to see what happens without any adult fish stocked. I think some pretty impressive fish would turn up if we could get a few years with lowered pressure fishing pressure in the FFO area and less appeal to poachers.

Posted on: 2013/4/10 22:41


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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2006/9/18 8:28
From Attitudinally, one mile south of Lake LeBoeuf
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I'm far from an expert on stream improvements, but I'd be of the view that in-stream habitat work on the special regs section of Little Sandy would be of more value to the people doing the work than it would be to the stream, unless there was a commitment to go in and re-do it every few years, which could be pretty pricey for your garden variety TU chapter.

PA freestones in that size class running through a typical valley for the region (somewhat narrow) often don't care about your hard work and devices. They jump around within the confines of the valley and follow the path of least resistance. Sometimes, that will be where you want them to go, right through your devices. Just as often (if not more often..), within a couple years of the work being done, they'll decide to go elsewhere and leave your work high and dry. Its kind of the nature of the beast.

Just a viewpoint...


Posted on: 2013/4/11 9:38


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

RLeeP wrote:
PA freestones in that size class running through a typical valley for the region (somewhat narrow) often don't care about your hard work and devices. They jump around within the confines of the valley and follow the path of least resistance. Sometimes, that will be where you want them to go, right through your devices. Just as often (if not more often..), within a couple years of the work being done, they'll decide to go elsewhere and leave your work high and dry. Its kind of the nature of the beast.

Just a viewpoint...


Excellent observation RLeeP. Geologists call it an incised valley. Streams naturally meander back and forth across the valley floor. If you actually look at the internal structure of floodplains, they inevitably have buried stream channels in them. The Miss. river for example has an incised valley that's 150 mile wide in places.

Posted on: 2013/4/11 18:59
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Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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2009/5/7 14:38
From Collegeville, PA
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Some streams are just not all that suitable for supporting a decent wild trout population. There are some stream sections that are currently flat and featureless and probably always have been flat and featureless. Trying to make any changes to streams like that is probably going to be a waist of time and money. If you try to change the habitat by adding bigger rocks and deflectors, the stream is going to try to return to its original state. Stream habitat projects tend to work best on streams that have been impaired by human activity such as logging and dredging. On these streams, you can plant trees and bushes along the banks to prevent erosion, and you can add rocks in order to rebuild the streams natural pool and riffle pattern.

Posted on: 2013/4/11 20:53


Re: Fingerling stocking on Little Sandy? ( Venango County)

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Quote:

Gone4Day wrote:

Excellent observation RLeeP. Geologists call it an incised valley. Streams naturally meander back and forth across the valley floor. If you actually look at the internal structure of floodplains, they inevitably have buried stream channels in them. The Miss. river for example has an incised valley that's 150 mile wide in places.


This isn't the case with LS. The stream has pretty much kept its course, with only minor horizontal shifts, in the 30 years I've been fishing it. As PennKev stated the stream bottom and pool structure has changed somewhat, especially over the past few years. Also mentioned -- the primary problem in the featureless shale bottom, flatwater section basically from the pumphouse down to the trestle. Many sections are classic scoured bottom.

At least a couple attempts have been made by OCTU over the last few decades to improve this section, with limited success.

I am a big fan of letting nature do its work, but in this case I honesty think that to improve it for any lasting period of time, serious heavy duty structures must be constructed involving bulldozing, gabions, jackdams, perhaps even concrete structures. (The best holding water is around the train trestle bridge and dam -- built at least 60 or 70 years ago.)

Posted on: 2013/4/15 9:20
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