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Re: Berks county class a info

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Quote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:In those instances, I would NEVER broadcast that stream on the public forum, unless its already been done. In this case, I found two instances in the last year...


I refuse to be suckered into the endless circle jerk about this, so let this be the last post I make within this thread:

This is a stupid answer you've made.

Every time someone talks about something, it raises the priority and its awareness. Ergo, adding to it, as the third person, has increased the potential of someone noticing it by 33%, if not more since you've essentially Bumped To Top the subject if the prior two mentions were buried into the archives.

It is what it is. As I said, you may learn the lesson of your choosing and apply it as you see fit.

In this very thread, you have a confirmation from someone who lives there that two prior, buried, mentions of something have coincided with a dramatic increase of pressure, harvest, and someone explicitly mentioning that very thread. Furthermore, the person who provided the advise isn't someone who acts as a firebrand on either side of the argument, and generally speaking probably related more to the "public knowledge" side than not, at least prior to his observations.

Anyways, in a closing statement in no way related to anything useful on subject, I enjoy most of all that the people who seem to be most willing to argue and fight incessantly about this topic are the ones who complain most loudly about it.


Posted on: 2012/9/17 12:38
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And why not?


Re: Berks county class a info

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If a stream gets named once in passing and nobody talks about it, generally it will fade away without damage. But if everyone then takes the view that since it’s been named and “outted” by someone else it’s now fair game for me to talk about all I want and it keeps getting brought up, that attention will result in an increase in pressure. That is a lame excuse for talking about a stream – someone else named it not me. Only when a stream is named for the first time in a glorifying stream report does it really result in an increase in fishing pressure.

Step one, don’t talk about streams or sections of streams or hatches on streams, whether known or unknown, that sees little fishing pressure. The less fishing pressure, the better for the trout and the habitat and selfishly, also the better for you, so don’t mention it and enjoy your peace and solitude (and you may be maintaining someone else’s peace and solitude too). And outing doesn’t necessarily mean naming a stream that hasn’t been named or isn’t known. I fish numerous streams that are known yet I fish them outside of their more popular sections or during times other than their more popular hatches and hardly see anyone else and the fishing is as good if not better that the more popular areas and times. I’d be an idiot to announce any of this on a public forum.


Posted on: 2012/9/17 12:50


Re: Berks county class a info

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2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
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Quote:

gfen wrote:
Quote:

The_Sasquatch wrote:In those instances, I would NEVER broadcast that stream on the public forum, unless its already been done. In this case, I found two instances in the last year...


I refuse to be suckered into the endless circle jerk about this, so let this be the last post I make within this thread:

This is a stupid answer you've made.

Every time someone talks about something, it raises the priority and its awareness. Ergo, adding to it, as the third person, has increased the potential of someone noticing it by 33%, if not more since you've essentially Bumped To Top the subject if the prior two mentions were buried into the archives.

It is what it is. As I said, you may learn the lesson of your choosing and apply it as you see fit.

In this very thread, you have a confirmation from someone who lives there that two prior, buried, mentions of something have coincided with a dramatic increase of pressure, harvest, and someone explicitly mentioning that very thread. Furthermore, the person who provided the advise isn't someone who acts as a firebrand on either side of the argument, and generally speaking probably related more to the "public knowledge" side than not, at least prior to his observations.

Anyways, in a closing statement in no way related to anything useful on subject, I enjoy most of all that the people who seem to be most willing to argue and fight incessantly about this topic are the ones who complain most loudly about it.



1-I'm not trying to get you into a circle jerk.
2-I agree about the nature of the person who gave the advice. Its the first time I've ever read something on this site, for either side of this debate, that made me step back and think. That is why I ask genuine questions around this subject. I'm not in the "baiting" game at all. Never have been, never will be.
3-I agree, again.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 13:00


Re: Berks county class a info

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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What I love about this argument is the dual sides to it. The same people who blast people for spot burning unknown streams are the very same people who complain about:

1. huge crowds on the "famous" streams.
2. the ignorant bait/spin fishermen who haven't a clue about wild trout, where they live, how to protect them, etc.
3. the PFBC's propensity to cater to the above crowd because they are the majority rather than wild trout enthusiasts who are the minority.

To me, we SHOULD spot burn, not just one stream at a time, (as that concentrates pressure), but a lot of them (to spread it out). I'd love to just list all of the streams I've found to be very good and worthwhile to fish, describing each and the best way to access them.

But, some of those were shown to me by others, and I won't betray their trust. Plus, I'd only do it if everyone else did too, as I don't want to ONLY draw attention to "my" streams.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 13:26


Re: Berks county class a info

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As you guys all know, I'm not a supporter of the crowd that likes to rant and rave about people "outing" streams and I am especially critical of the bullying and intimidation tactics of some. That said, their message is however valid so I think the question becomes how do we make PAFF a stream resource for members who give back to the community. I mean what's the point of having a community if you can't use it as a resource but I really do get the increased pressure concern. Here's an example, I live in Philly and to drive almost anywhere with good fishing can be 2 to 3 hours away. Now I get the point of those who feel that I should learn streams on my own like they did (or say they did) but I still work full time and with limited time to fish I don't want to drive 3 hours only to find no access, no water or no fish. So I see our challenge as a community as being how do we develop a resource that doesn't require public viewing on a large scale? A members only section really doesn't solve anything because people will just become members to view it. Setting up a minimium amount of posts to view it also doesn't seem like it will work because you have long time members that just don't post a lot.

So, what do you guys feel are some constructive ideas on how to make that work? PM's have worked great for me and the info I have gotten has been appreciated but that only works if you know who to PM about what streams. Please don't post sarcastic comments as I am really trying to discuss ways to make everyone, if not happy, at least satisfied.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 13:54


Re: Berks county class a info

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2009/8/12 11:55
From chester county
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Quote:
Pcray 1231 wrote:
To me, we SHOULD spot burn, not just one stream at a time, (as that concentrates pressure), but a lot of them (to spread it out). I'd love to just list all of the streams I've found to be very good and worthwhile to fish, describing each and the best way to access them. But, some of those were shown to me by others, and I won't betray their trust. Plus, I'd only do it if everyone else did too, as I don't want to ONLY draw attention to "my" streams.

But, some of those were shown to me by others, and I won't betray their trust. Plus, I'd only do it if everyone else did too, as I don't want to ONLY draw attention to "my" streams.


This...There's enough decent "secret" streams just in the SE part of the state that if everyone spread out over them you'd never see another angler on Valley (except for the after-work crowd which will never go away bc of vc's location). Imagine that. it will never happen though.

You have a minority who fish several streams with little pressure and a majority who only fish one or two heavily pressured waters because that's all they are aware of. I'd be all for doing what Pat said if the rest of that minority did the same, because like he said it concentrates pressure to "burn" a handful at a time-it has to be a ton at once. License sales are declining. Wanna hold people's interest in our sport better? Give them some help on where to fish. What will be more interesting to a beginner, hiking into a scenic little stream with stupid unpressured fish or struggling time after time to catch pressured fish that have already seen ten anglers that day? Can't tell you how many friends I have back home who stopped fishing because "there's nowhere good around here, it's not worth the money."

And these streams that are supposed to be "secret"- I have yet to find a stream that has not been fished by at least one other forum member. Even ones that are no more than five feet wide.

Sorry for taking part in the "circle jerk" once more but I couldn't leave the above unsaid.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 14:15


Re: Berks county class a info

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2009/8/12 11:55
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Foxgap239 wrote:
As you guys all know, I'm not a supporter of the crowd that likes to rant and rave about people "outing" streams and I am especially critical of the bullying and intimidation tactics of some. That said, their message is however valid so I think the question becomes how do we make PAFF a stream resource for members who give back to the community. I mean what's the point of having a community if you can't use it as a resource but I really do get the increased pressure concern. Here's an example, I live in Philly and to drive almost anywhere with good fishing can be 2 to 3 hours away. Now I get the point of those who feel that I should learn streams on my own like they did (or say they did) but I still work full time and with limited time to fish I don't want to drive 3 hours only to find no access, no water or no fish. So I see our challenge as a community as being how do we develop a resource that doesn't require public viewing on a large scale?


If you have info on enough streams (say several hundred), public viewing on a large scale wouldn't be a problem imo. There just aren't that many fishermen.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 14:18


Re: Berks county class a info

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2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
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PSUFishMenace wrote:
If you have info on enough streams (say several hundred), public viewing on a large scale wouldn't be a problem imo. There just aren't that many fishermen.


Can't say I disagree plus I think some streams would just turn most people off as not being their type of fishing. I really have to come to believe that the real problem is the lurkers who want to take fish and not the FF'ers who C&R. But what do I know.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 14:24


Re: Berks county class a info

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I think you're right, Fox, about the problem being the lurkers. What I'm trying to get at is, how far do we let the fear of lurkers dictate what we say and don't say on this forum?

Posted on: 2012/9/17 14:28


Re: Berks county class a info

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2011/6/29 9:38
From Philadelphia
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Totally agree but I do see the other side of the argument too. We need a mechanism where we can say what we want without lurkers seeing it but still be a resource to the part of the community that shares their knowledge. It's definitely a tough balance, I don't think there is an easy answer. I like what PCray and PSU suggest but doubt you'd get enough people willing to open up like that. Then there's people like me whose spent his entire fishing life fishing certain streams and now wants to branch out and fish the little gems. I don't have anything people don't already know to share, so should I even benefit from the knowledge base. No easy answers.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 14:35


Re: Berks county class a info

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2009/8/12 11:55
From chester county
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One thing I forgot to mention- if we were to name a bunch of smaller, lesser-known streams, it would be a bad idea to not include info about how to properly treat the resource. Most anglers in PA don't understand or have never heard of the concept of wild trout. It would be a wasted opportunity to just name 500 decent streams without also doing something to better inform the average angler about how a wild trout population works. Whether or not this would be enough to ease the fear of what lurkers would do to someone's home stream, probably not.

Quote:
Foxgap239 wrote:
doubt you'd get enough people willing to open up like that.


Me too, unfortunately.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 15:13


Re: Berks county class a info
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Let me help paint a picture for everyone.

Paflyfish is here to help foster a shared interest in expanding our knowledge, experience and most importantly our enjoyment for fly fishing in Pennsylvania region. Humor, ideas, debate, and opinions are encouraged. Deliberate insults, personal attacks, and lewd comments are not welcome for any reason.

As a community site that encourages fly fishing in Pennsylvania, this site also encourages the sharing of ideas, fish stories, stream locations, and general helping of others to learn more and become better fly fishing anglers.

If you don't like the policies please feel free to leave. If anyone feels the need to deliberately intimidate anyone for following this policy I assure you they will be booted.

This site has thousands of people that seem to enjoy the community we have created by being open. I have expressed this countless times and we are not going to change.

There are countless miles of public access waters that anglers are encouraged to fly fish over.


Posted on: 2012/9/17 16:16


Re: Berks county class a info

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2009/4/4 8:58
From Reading
Posts: 600
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I have learned some great things from this site. There is a lot of useful information and people willing to help the the new guy trying to get started, to the more experienced angler needing a technical question answered.

DKile, this is your site and you can run it as you please. I will disagree with you and others on your open door policy when it comes to freely sharing just any stream on PAFF. It could be done in a more responsible manner IMO. I for one have seen the the creek in question go down hill these past couple years. Not every stream can handle the pressure this site directs to it. This streams decline is a direct result of people blabbing about it on PAFF that I can guarantee you.

So why there are many positives about this site there is definitely one big negative.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 19:19


Re: Berks county class a info
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You have to take the definite good with the speculative bad.

Posted on: 2012/9/17 20:30
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Re: Berks county class a info
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Jeff,

Hear you and respect yours and everyones opinion. Which proves to me why an open approach has worked so well and been successful for 15 years.

My feedback is for everyone not just Jeff.

The really only non-negotiable for me is how we treat each other on the site. There is no way everyone will agree on every issues. I very comfortable with that fact.

I say this for everyone, deliberate insults, personal attacks, and lewd comments are not welcome for any reason. We have to understand there are times we are going to have to agree to disagree.

I only ask each of us to take this passion we have and give back to the sport in a way you feel best suited for you. Contribute in a positive manner whether it be help teach some one new, Wound Warriors, TU conservation efforts or whatever.

I don't really care about Donny Beaver, Class A, Big Spring, Spot Burning and other calamities in our sport. What concerns me more is what do we do to help our sport? That is my fight. Pay it forward.

Posted on: 2012/9/18 10:02



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