pine/penns possible threat

[nymphingmaniac]

from Penns Valley General store facebook page

Hey Penns Valley folks, Con-Stone quarry in Aaronsburg has acquired a permit from the DEP to mine underneath 2 roads just east of A-burg. DEP claims that Con Stone owns the limestone under the roads and therefore has granted them permission without public input. This most likely will affect Pine Creek and therefore Penns Creek. There is a public meeting at the Aaronsburg Community building on Aug 8th from 5-8pm. Thanks for reading

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Penns-Valley-Outfitters-General-Store/246451322073020?ref=stream

 

[PENZZZ]

Any threat to Pine Creek should be taken very seriously. Pine IS the lifeblood of Penns Creek.

 

[jjsjigs]

How?

 

[bikerfish]

Pine, along with elk, give penns a huge shot of cold water, without, the fishing from coburn downstream may suffer.

 

[Foxgap239]

I totally agree that whatever happens to Pine will affect Penn's. But what I'm not seeing is what the actual concern is in relation to the stream. I know Pine goes underground in many spots and I'm wondering if their concerns about the issue are justified. I'm not saying they are or aren't but just asking the question.

 

[franklin]

I seem to remember the same issue came up a number of years back with the current quarry. Has the quarry negatively impacted Penns during that time?

Are you sure it's not Elk that would be threatened?

 

[PENZZZ]

"Pine, along with elk, give penns a huge shot of cold water, without, the fishing from coburn downstream may suffer."

Elk Creek is irrelevant. On any July day Pine Creek will run ten degrees cooler than Elk - the temperatures in each are read and recorded every day. One day in July I personally measured them at their confluence. Elk was 73 degrees while Pine was 63 degrees. Now, imagine losing the cooling effect of Pine!

The dammed area upstream of Coburn also seems to be irrelevant. This past weekend I dipped a thermometer below the dam and got 71 degrees, then drove to the flowing area just above the dam. There I got 70.5 degrees. Not much of an impact.

 

[franklin]

PENZZZ wrote:
"Pine, along with elk, give penns a huge shot of cold water, without, the fishing from coburn downstream may suffer."

Elk Creek is irrelevant. On any July day Pine Creek will run ten degrees cooler than Elk - the temperatures in each are read and recorded every day. One day in July I personally measured them at their confluence. Elk was 73 degrees while Pine was 63 degrees. Now, imagine losing the cooling effect of Pine!

The dammed area upstream of Coburn also seems to be irrelevant. This past weekend I dipped a thermometer below the dam and got 71 degrees, then drove to the flowing area just above the dam. There I got 70.5 degrees. Not much of an impact.

That's true but the location of the quarry could be relevant.

 

[pcray1231]

Well, aside from the water temp thing, there's a water chemistry thing too. But yes, I agree, if something bad happens to Pine, it's certainly harmful to Penns too.

Though I have to echo foxgap's inquiry. I am NOT saying there's no danger, I really have no idea. But I need more information.

This most likely will affect Pine Creek.

That's a strong statement that implies a specific concern. What is that concern? HOW will this effect Pine Creek? What is the mechanism?

Are we talking siltation? Heavy metals? Dewatering? Warming? And why would the planned actions result in these problems?

 

[PENZZZ]

I have no idea whether the OP concerns will affect either stream. Hopefully neither.

 

[franklin]

The quarry is about 3000 to 4000 feet from Elk Creek. It is five miles from the mouth of Pine and further from the main body of Pine. The expansion of the quarry is westward from the current location. Away from Pine and towards Elk.

The company, Con-Stone, has an agreement in place limiting the maximum depth to which they can mine. This was negotiated locally (I can't remember if it was township or Arronsburg) out of concern for homeowners wells. Since the current operation does not appear to affect either stream I see no reason for alarm. It's always good to be aware of potential impacts on high value streams such as Penns.

Knowing a few people in the valley my take is that the locals are upset over the increased truck traffic and blasting noise that will come with the expansion. So they are hyping the ecological impact concerns to rally support against the expansion.

 

[PENZZZ]

pcray,
You're right, and I should have taken more time to say that Elk is relevant from the flow point of view. Penns certainly benefits from it during periods of low flow, even if the water isn't as cold as Pine.

Limestone quarries here in the Lehigh Valley strike water, and it's believed that the lateral pull across the layers of limestone are contributing to sinkholes and de-watering of sections of streams like the Bushkill flowing through Easton.

Jeff

 

[franklin]

PENZZZ wrote:
pcray,
You're right, and I should have taken more time to say that Elk is relevant from the flow point of view. Penns certainly benefits from it during periods of low flow, even if the water isn't as cold as Pine.

Limestone quarries here in the Lehigh Valley strike water, and it's believed that the lateral pull across the layers of limestone are contributing to sinkholes and de-watering of sections of streams like the Bushkill flowing through Easton.

Jeff

The limestone quarries in the Lehigh Valley are much deeper and go well below the water table. They run large pumps full time to get that deep. This quarry at Aaronsburg is not that deep and does not pump ground water. The maximum depth in the agreement was based on keeping the "floor" of the quarry above the water table. It is located very close to the town and I'm sure if they got low enough to pump the wells would go dry very quickly.

Storm water run-off is another concern but it's my understanding that the company has agreed to, and is following, precautions that exceed what is required for their quarry. (I think they agreed to follow standards for coal mines which is much more severe.)