bellefonte hatchery

[nymphingmaniac]

Environmental groups plan to sue state over Bellefonte fish hatchery

Read more here:
http://www.centredaily.com/2013/10/17/3842918/environmental-groups-plan-to-sue.html

not sure if this has any legs or not.

Lots of news this week about the Spring creek watershed!

 

[Lonewolve]

WTF where were these two groups among others when the talk even started about Fracking in this state, better yet maybe they should go after everyone in the whole Spring Creek watershed that uses all the pesticides and fertilizers to make their lawns perfect. not to mention that even treated water from the treatment plants still cannot get the residual waste from the water when folks take certain drugs or from birth control pills. SMH

 

[just_jon]

I don't know if this story has legs or not, but it will not be the first time that a state agency responsible for conservation of the resource has shown disregard to the discharge restrictions in their DEP permit.

I witnessed this first hand on Big Spring from 1972 to 2001 when their permits were pulled and the hatchery was closed. Technology exists which allows for hathery production with a substantial reduction in harmful discharges. The cost to retrofit is expensive and given the current funding circumstances surrounding the agency, it is unlikely that changes will occur.

 

[albud1962]

Spring Creek perpetually has a sewage smell. Its a shame. One wonders how much better the fishing would be if the 3 fish hatcheries and 2 wastewater treatment plants didn't discharge to it. I noticed at Sheetz an oil/gasoline sheen draining off the parking lot within 100 yards of Spring Creek. I just shake my head when I see the Kayakers and recreational tubers float down the creek oblivious to what goes in. They are bathing in basically treated sewage.

 

[csoult]

This story has been all over the news around here lately. If nothing else, it will shed a light on the situation, causing better monitoring.

 

[Fishidiot]

Interesting story - thanks for the link.

Isn't the Bellefonte Hatchery schedule to close next year? Last time I checked, this had been approved for 2013......but then the PFBC decided to continue fish production through 2014. What am I missing?

 

[afishinado]

Fishidiot wrote:
Interesting story - thanks for the link.

Isn't the Bellefonte Hatchery schedule to close next year? Last time I checked, this had been approved for 2013......but then the PFBC decided to continue fish production through 2014. What am I missing?

My understanding is the closing of the hatcheries is on a holding pattern. The State (Pollies) don't want to endure the wrath of the trout anglers in their district and have promised to fund the hatcheries...somehow?

I voiced my opinion that accepting funds from the General Fund will destroy what little autonomy the PFBC has over stocking and regulations......but that's another matter altogether.

 

[troutbert]

afishinado wrote:

Fishidiot wrote:
Interesting story - thanks for the link.

Isn't the Bellefonte Hatchery schedule to close next year? Last time I checked, this had been approved for 2013......but then the PFBC decided to continue fish production through 2014. What am I missing?

My understanding is the closing of the hatcheries is on a holding pattern.

I'm pretty sure that is correct.

No final decision has been made yet on whether or not the Bellefonte and Oswayo hatcheries will be closed.

 

[afishinado]

Here is a short blurb about the change of plans:

http://blog.pennlive.com/pa-sportsman/2013/03/pennsylvania_fish_and_boat_commissioners_reverse_themselves_on_closure_of_two_trout_hatcheries.html#incart_river_default

 

[allan_s]

The biggest problem is the development surrounding Spring Creek. State College just keeps getting bigger, the hatcheries and sewage treatment plants don't do anything compared to the excess runoff and other problems with a stream being built up from headwaters to mouth.

 

[nymphingmaniac]

You guys don't know (may be you do) the worst of the development plans. The fields next to the new prison along I99 near the bellefonte I99 interchange has been deemed a enterprise/development zone for business. There is no known plans for the discharge of nasties, but the big threat is thermal pollution! Most of that water draining from roofs and blacktop will go into storm drains. Right now it drops on fields and works its way down the canyon through the ground purifying, neutralizing and cooling it.

http://www.cbicc.org/news/newsarticledisplay.aspx?ArticleID=173
http://www.centrecountyidc.org/BuildingSites/BennerCommercePark.aspx


Second, the titan energy park along logan branch in bellefonte is being sold with the promise of an onsite waste water treatment and plentiful spring water. Guess who they cater to? The energy industry. Some of the partners are involved in gas extraction

finally, read the post on slab cabin too

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I don't want to revive the debate, but think about it. Three major hatcheries on the spring creek watershed alone.

This may sound strange, but in someways the discharge is good for water levels. The amount of phosphorous (main pollutant) is well below standards from the state college plants (I'm less sure about bellefonte). I think it's not detectable. let's not forget folks, back in the 50s and 60s when state college was just a university and farm community the very few homes around were discharging their un- or poorly treated sewage into the creek. The sewage treatment plants were instrumental in the streams recovery.
http://fishandboat.com/water/streams/springck_fishery.pdf

The real problem is thermal more than the pollutants. Although, the discharge from bellefonte's plant makes the section below exceptional fishing in the winter, especially midge fishing.

 

[salmonoid]

nymphingmaniac wrote:
I don't want to revive the debate, but think about it. Three major hatcheries on the spring creek watershed alone.

This may sound strange, but in someways the discharge is good for water levels. The amount of phosphorous (main pollutant) is well below standards from the state college plants (I'm less sure about bellefonte). I think it's not detectable. let's not forget folks, back in the 50s and 60s when state college was just a university and farm community the very few homes around were discharging their un- or poorly treated sewage into the creek. The sewage treatment plants were instrumental in the streams recovery.
http://fishandboat.com/water/streams/springck_fishery.pdf

The real problem is thermal more than the pollutants. Although, the discharge from bellefonte's plant makes the section below exceptional fishing in the winter, especially midge fishing.

How is the effluent from the sewer and fish plants good for the waterway? Or do you mean the addition of the volume of water from the sewer and wells that supplement the fish plants helps maintain the stream level?

Agree that thermal issues will continue to dog that region..

 

[troutbert]

The discharges from the hatcheries does not improve water flows in Spring Creek. Because the water coming out the discharges is water that would have flowed into Spring Creek before the hatcheries were built.

The water is simply diverted. They are not creating any "new" water. For example the Benner Spring hatchery. If you park at the Rock Road parking area and walk downstream you will come to the Benner Spring, which is enclosed in a low concrete structure with a metal roof. That is the main water supply for the hatchery. Originally, all the water would have flowed directly into Spring Creek there at the spring. Now water is diverted through the hatchery.

Just below the Rock Road parking area you will see a diversion dam, built to divert water from Spring Creek into a canal which flows into the hatchery.

The water used in the hatchery is discharged at the lower end of the hatchery, near the bridge over the creek.

So there is no addition of water, just diversion of water.

 

[JackM]

Water, which is matter, is neither created nor destroyed, so someone said hundreds of years ago.

 

[salmonoid]

Troutbert,
My understanding of the hatcheries is that their water sources included the creeks, springs by the creeks, AND wells (see, for instance http://fishandboat.com/images/fisheries/fcs/bellefonte-sfh.htm) and all three Spring Creek watershed hatcheries list production wells as a water source. The water from the wells is going to increase the net volume of water in the streams, although water budgets are interesting to say the least in karst topography. I thought the OP line of reasoning may have been that the addition of water, which would increase flows, offset the pollution those sources made.

 

[troutbert]

Water budgets in karst drainages are interesting. And I don't think that is possible to increase the net amount of water flowing out the mouth of Spring Creek, over time, by pumping from wells.

If you pump a particular quantity of water from a well for a hatchery, that increases flow into the stream at that point and time, but also reduces flow by that same quantity, from springs at other places and/or times.

Because when you pump water out of the limestone, you are intercepting flow that would flow out of other springs.

 

[salmonoid]

Troutbert,

A lot depends on the depths of the wells. If they are shallow wells, then you are likely correct, because there is probably good play between the shallow aquifer and surface manifestation of the water (streams). If the wells are deeper, there may not be as good an interaction and it would be possible that the well pumps are moving water from one conduit (underground) to another (surface), which could potentially increase the flow of the stream. Water movement in karst terranes is an entirely different beast than it is in other sedimentary rocks (shale, sandstone, etc.). I've read studies where tracer dies were placed into limestone streams and they showed up miles away, on the other side of a mountain.

Science aside, I'm still curious about the exact mechanisms the OP thinks were enhanced by the sewage treatment plants and the fish plants, which ultimately benefited the stream. I can see that having a sewage treatment plant in place is better than having no plant in place (i.e treated effluent is better than raw sewage).

 

[nymphingmaniac]

I think you are referring to me. I don't think, and have argued strongly to the contrary, that fish hatcheries benefit the streams.

I do believe the water treatment plants benefit the stream by
cleaning sewage and reducing phosphorous (major)
returning water that was was removed further upstream (minor, b/c water is just diverted) But humans need water.It's not the treatment plants fault

read the history of spring creek. Talk to locals who were around in the 60s-70s. These plants have done wonders

 

[osprey]

JUSTjON .........beat me to it way back , i lived on Big Spring when they shut the hatchery down , the thing i remember most was running into this young fellow fishing who had lost his job as a result. A reporter from the Chambersberg area was there quite often during the pre-closing stages and if i'm not mistaken he was pres of the Watershed Assn. who imo are the main reason the hatchery is gone.