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Re: Windpower

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5040
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Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
If site selection is the biggest problem that's a lot easier to fix than a lot of problems with other power sources. And I don;t think wind will replace anything on a grand scale. But it has proven it can reduce dependence on any one alternative. I think that is what people should be looking at is having more and better alternatives. I would think capitalists would be in favor of new investments, research and development and implementation of new money making businesses.



One problem is the cost. Wind power costs about 12 - 15 cents per kWH. That's probably more than you are currently paying. The reason for the push is that many states are mandating 20% or so of electric generation be renewable (they don't include nuclear). In the NE solar is more expensive so wind is the only alternative.

Posted on: 2009/4/14 10:37


Re: Windpower

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2009/4/1 21:52
From Johnstown, PA
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I'd like to thank you all for the responses to this question so far and i just gotta say, trout fishermen and especially fly fishermen sure do represent the segment of society in America that I am most proud to be a part of, great, thought out answers....we are definately a force to be reckoned with when we organize behind an issue. THANK YOU

Posted on: 2009/4/19 9:55


Re: Windpower

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7878
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One thing they are not is green, they are being built in environmentally sensative areas such as EV watersheds and on mountain tops that have never been developed. Bad idea.

Posted on: 2009/4/30 19:15
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Re: Windpower

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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We could dig for coal there instead...

Posted on: 2009/4/30 19:17


Re: Windpower

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2009/1/3 13:51
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Don't know if anyone else caught it, but yesterday on the Weather Channel they showed a problem with wind farms affecting the radar storm tracking.

Apparently wind farms show up as a severe storm.

Stephanie Abrams, one of the Weather Channel's weather forecasters (who is to team up soon with the Today's showman weatherman Al Roker for their own special forecasting in addition to the Today Show), and another weather forecaster showed a visual comparing a severe storm event and then pointed out that the identical imagry was being given off by wind farms.

I think it was an Oklahoma map.

They briefly discussed how the wind farms could easily cause an erroneous warning about severe weather.

They did mention that mapping the wind farms would probably have to be done.

Maybe we need stealth windmills.

Posted on: 2009/4/30 19:48


Re: Windpower

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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Well if you can remember where the wind farms are it would then be pretty easy to figure out if its a tornado or a wind farm. The fact that power when out could be a clue that its both.

Posted on: 2009/4/30 19:58


Re: Windpower

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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You can get a small unit that will mount very unobtrusive on your roofand generate enough power most of the time to be able to sell it on the grid. Combined with a few solar panels that look like roofing material, the metal stuff, and you have a house of the grid if you want.
This is something not generally in the knowledge of the public. But you could get a lot of clean energy this way. The costs have come way down.

Posted on: 2009/5/7 21:38
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There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.


Re: Windpower

Joined:
2006/9/11 14:30
From Franklin County
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Chaz,

While I agree with you, alot can be done to your home without taking yourself off the grid and emptying your pockets.

Here are some links for PA residents that may assist you in home improvements that can lower your electric bill.

http://www.keystonehelp.com/

http://www.dsireusa.org/library/inclu ... geID=1&State=PA&RE=1&EE=1

Posted on: 2009/5/8 9:42
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Perhaps fishing is, for me, only an excuse to be near rivers.


Re: Windpower

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2007/4/25 10:02
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I think Stephanie Abrams is hot!

Posted on: 2009/5/9 9:04
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Re: Windpower
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2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7111
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Quote:

acristickid wrote:
I think Stephanie Abrams is hot!


You crack me up Paul...can't wait for the Jam!

Posted on: 2009/5/9 22:39
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Windpower

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5040
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Quote:

Chaz wrote:
You can get a small unit that will mount very unobtrusive on your roofand generate enough power most of the time to be able to sell it on the grid. Combined with a few solar panels that look like roofing material, the metal stuff, and you have a house of the grid if you want.
This is something not generally in the knowledge of the public. But you could get a lot of clean energy this way. The costs have come way down.


Chaz, if you put solar panels on the roof of the average house in Pa you would only generate enough power on average to run your toaster oven for two hours a day.

Posted on: 2009/5/13 9:20


Re: Windpower

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
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Quote:

franklin wrote:


Chaz, if you put solar panels on the roof of the average house in Pa you would only generate enough power on average to run your toaster oven for two hours a day.



Not true...more lies from the naysayers...while it'll cost you some green, a reasonably sized 6.5 kw unit will reduce you consumption by 85% and you will recoup the cost in about 5 years.

You should stop reading the propaganda an try looking it up yourself. My post comes from my morning paper...the one that hates enviro-wackos but prints stories that prove its opinions to be lies.

Posted on: 2009/5/14 16:27


Re: Windpower

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2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5040
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Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
Quote:

franklin wrote:


Chaz, if you put solar panels on the roof of the average house in Pa you would only generate enough power on average to run your toaster oven for two hours a day.



Not true...more lies from the naysayers...while it'll cost you some green, a reasonably sized 6.5 kw unit will reduce you consumption by 85% and you will recoup the cost in about 5 years.

You should stop reading the propaganda an try looking it up yourself. My post comes from my morning paper...the one that hates enviro-wackos but prints stories that prove its opinions to be lies.


Are you referring to solar or wind power systems?
BTW I don't have to read about it, I've done it. I designed remote communications systems which used solar backup. Come back when you can demonstrate the math to show the efficiencies and costs that give a short payback when installed in Pennsylvania. If solar power was profitable in Pennsylvania the power companies would be doing it. They have requirements to generate a percentage of their power by renewable means. They are not choosing solar.

Posted on: 2009/5/14 18:42


Re: Windpower

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2006/9/10 21:53
From Greensburg, PA
Posts: 13629
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so you are using solar power yourself...that's good.

It would appear others are too.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/s_624073.html


Unless you LIKE buying fuel from terrorists and polluting your own trout streams...

In Idaho I paid $7.50 for an electric bill in the summer and 40 bucks in mid winter with electric heat. Less than 25% fossil fuel. If you use less expensive means you can charge less. If you can generate it yourself, you don't have to pay for it at all.

My point was you told Chaz he could run a a toaster for 2 hours. First, just how dark do you like your toast? (2hrs?) and second it was a lie because as I said you can reduce dependancy by 85%. Hopefully 85% of your electric bill isn't for making pop tarts...

A 6.5 kw system costs 51K...New Jersey, for example has the kind of generous tax incentives that would allow you to recoup costs in about 5 years.

Posted on: 2009/5/14 19:25


Re: Windpower

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5040
Offline
Quote:

tomgamber wrote:
so you are using solar power yourself...that's good.

It would appear others are too.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleyindependent/s_624073.html


Unless you LIKE buying fuel from terrorists and polluting your own trout streams...

In Idaho I paid $7.50 for an electric bill in the summer and 40 bucks in mid winter with electric heat. Less than 25% fossil fuel. If you use less expensive means you can charge less. If you can generate it yourself, you don't have to pay for it at all.

My point was you told Chaz he could run a a toaster for 2 hours. First, just how dark do you like your toast? (2hrs?) and second it was a lie because as I said you can reduce dependancy by 85%. Hopefully 85% of your electric bill isn't for making pop tarts...

A 6.5 kw system costs 51K...New Jersey, for example has the kind of generous tax incentives that would allow you to recoup costs in about 5 years.


That's 6.5 kW peak power if built at the equator, aimed directly at the sun, in 0 percent humidity, at high noon on the day of solar equinox. In Pa the average solar energy per sq meter is about 2kwh per day in December. It's about 4000 in the summer. But that is what is shining on the panel. There are a number of multipliers you need to apply all fractions less than 1. Such as 0.075% initial conversion efficiency, 0.9 aging, 0.8 for AC conversion, x% for deviation off true south, dirt on the panel over time, etc. You will get about 100 wh per sq meter of solar cell in December once your all done.

This cost us $400 per sq meter buying in many thousands of panels. I estimated the average roof to hold 30 panels on a perfect south facing roof mounted at latitude. So for $12000 you can get 3 kwh of power, enough to run a toaster oven for two hours, in December. I didn't even include the cost of installation and the DC/AC converter. My electric utility charges me about $0.15 per kwh. So this is a $0.45 per day.

A 6.5 kw system might make sense in Arizona or elsewhere in the SW. If it was really worth the cost I would have bought panels and put them on my house.

Posted on: 2009/5/14 19:48



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