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Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2006/11/2 8:50
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I want to be there when you guys explain to Owen Owens and the other Valley Cr TUers about their issues because they:

"refuse to admit their less-than-altruistic reasons"

I want to hear you explain to them the error of their ways.

And how they can get the Jack & Jay seal of approval, if they just fess up.

Jay, I think you live not too far from there. Stop by a Valley Creek TU meeting, introduce yourself, and 'splain it to them.

Posted on: 2009/2/6 20:55


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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i would pay to see that......prehaps someone could post that on youtube

Posted on: 2009/2/6 21:36
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Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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From Bozeman
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I'm not going to point out that you're being a bit of a douche about this, because I'm pretty sure you realize it.

I should have qualified the statement with "many". My mistake.

It still holds. Not everyone is there for the divine karma. Some just do it for their own fishing enjoyment. Are those rosy colored glasses polarized?

In this own thread, two of us have admitted to it. My reasoning for doing stream work is "less than altruistic". I do it for the fishing. Paul agrees. There's nothing wrong with it.

I had a correspondence with VFTU and they never got back to me with info. I'd be happy to explain myself.

"Hi. I'm jay. I'm here to make my fishing experience better."

Altruistic - showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others.

Doin' it to make your fishing better doesn't fit the bill. It's not an insult, you're just making it one.

Sal, what's so funny? Your statement implies that you agree with me. I suspect you just enjoy typing 'lmfao'.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 9:31


Re: Valley Creek Restoration
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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I had absolutely nothing to add to this thread until two posters used my name in association with an incorrect account of my views that I have previously expressed about the reasons that many people engage in stream projects.

I applaud efforts to improve streams for fishing. I favor such projects that restore habitat in a natural way rather than those that create highly artificial improvements that seem only to be areas for me to lose more flies. I do, however, recognize that some such improvements are helpful where they counteract some other artificial condition created by human interferance with the natural course of the waterway.

What causes me on occasion to speak my view about the motivation of others is when such others adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about their volunteer efforts as if the world should begin painting halos behind their heads in any image depicting them, or when such persons assume that every angler should value their volunteer efforts as much as they value it themselves despite the fact that not all other anglers were dissatisfied with the state of the stream before their efforts were applied.

You can rail against my view if you wish, look down upon me, feel superior, but just make sure that if you want any of that to alter my view, it should at least accurately understand my view and not just be a straw man that you have set up to give you something you can easily knock back down.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 10:05
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Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

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Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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Jack's has repeatedly attacked flyfishers involved in stream and fisheries conservation on this message board. If anyone doubts that, they can dig up the old posts.

Those attacks are the cause of the problem. If he hadn't done that, there never would have been this "issue."

VC, maybe it's best to let sleeping dogs lie, and not bring it up again. And I won't bring it up again either. But if the topic is brought up again, I have as much right as anyone else to comment on it.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 10:20


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2008/12/29 13:34
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 670
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wow guys - less time arguing, more time fishing. Time to wet a line and relax :)

Posted on: 2009/2/9 10:24


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
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Arguing is fun.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 10:31


Re: Valley Creek Restoration
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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Troutbert, since you are aware of the search abilities of the board, I challenge you to "dig up" any attack on "flyfishers involved in stream and fisheries conservation," that you claim I have "repeatedly" expressed. This is blatant manufacturing of history to suit your purpose and it and it alone is the reason the issue is ever discussed. It is not only you, but likely primarily you, that perpetuates a false impression of my feelings on this topic. Frankly, one wonders why the suggestion that some folks involved in stream improvements are feathering their own nest strikes such a nerve with you.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 10:43
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Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.

-- Leo Tolstoy


Re: Valley Creek Restoration
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Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Some participate in conservation efforts to help to their fishing, they have a for love fishing and nature.

Some participate in conservation efforts in part to help their fishing, they have a love for fishing and nature.

Some participate in conservation efforts and don’t fish at all, but still love nature.

So what?!?……what’s the big deal?

I believe that enlisting all those who care about conservation, even those that do not fish, allows us to do more. The broader the base of people participating, the louder the voice for change, and the more people there will be to fund and participate in conservation projects. Also, when we rub elbows with non-fishers, they may learn that we are not the bloodthirsty killers the PETA crowd makes us out to be. From what I’m told, as long they are kept away from the fire ring at the Jam after dark, most would believe we are a decent bunch.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 11:38


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
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actually i wasent agreeing with you at all. I actually did lmfao at the comment about tom brokaw.

But i would still pay to see you do that at a meeting

Posted on: 2009/2/9 11:47
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Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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From Bozeman
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Your statements implied that you agree.

It doesn't matter what someone's motives are. It's exactly my point. Some just don't admit that their reasons aren't that much beyond helping their own experience. Others are in it because they are just caring about the watersheds.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 12:25


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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Jay, I highly recommend joining Valley Cr TU. They are a great bunch of people. Friendly, fun, very into fishing, streams, conservation, wild trout etc.

You'll have a good time, meet some great people, and learn a lot about streams, trout, habitat etc. And fishing, as some of them are very accomplished flyfishers.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 13:46


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

Joined:
2007/1/2 11:55
From Bozeman
Posts: 19931
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I tried, and had a brief email correspondence with them a few months ago. They were to send me materials, and never did. I was unable to attend the meetings because of my work/class schedule. When are the meetings now? I might be able to make it. If not, I definitely will once I finish my last class in a few weeks.

Hopefully they'd have me, despite the fact that I'm not going to hide the fact that I'm working for my own benefit.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 13:54


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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Jay,

Here's a link to the chapter's website.

http://www.valleyforgetu.org/

There's calendar to click on the upper left.

Looks like a flytying night Thursday, Feb. 12.

I'm sure they'll be glad to have you there. Like any TU chapter, there's all sorts of people. You'll fit right in.

Posted on: 2009/2/9 17:10


Re: Valley Creek Restoration

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6494
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well i dont agree with the blanket statement that most people are in it to better the fishing experience. This may be so but who am i, or we for that matter to say what the motives of people are that we have never met

So no, i dont agree....im just saying who cares what the motive is

Posted on: 2009/2/9 17:17
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