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Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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It is kind of interesting that on paflyfish you have these two common types of posts regarding TU:

1) TU is fringe, extremist, bad, I cannot support them, etc.

2) Whenever someone wants something improved, i.e. better fisheries management, cleaning up the water, riparian or habitat improvements, etc., then the message is: "TU should do X, Y, Z."



Posted on: 3/15 12:06


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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2013/10/29 14:04
From Westmoreland/Tioga
Posts: 216
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
[quote]
Have you brought this up with your chapter president and other chapter leaders? And/or state-wide PATU leaders? And given them ideas on how you think this might be accomplished?


Dwight,
It was not my idea but, I was referring to work already done by Chestnut Ridge TU. I used it as an example of TU working on a stocked fishery in an honest attempt to encourage a wild trout population. I think this is a valid en devour for TU. Does anyone not agree?

Posted on: 3/15 14:04


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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Quote:

shortrod2 wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
[quote]
Have you brought this up with your chapter president and other chapter leaders? And/or state-wide PATU leaders? And given them ideas on how you think this might be accomplished?


Dwight,
It was not my idea but, I was referring to work already done by Chestnut Ridge TU. I used it as an example of TU working on a stocked fishery in an honest attempt to encourage a wild trout population. I think this is a valid en devour for TU. Does anyone not agree?


It would be great if the Yough could be made a wild trout fishery. What would it take for that to happen?

Posted on: 3/15 14:16


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
It would be great if the Yough could be made a wild trout fishery. What would it take for that to happen?


Only mother nature knows for sure, but the belief at least was that the proper sized gravel for spawning was not present. The work by Chestnut Ridge TU was to sink boxes that contained what was thought to be the right gravel.

Posted on: 3/15 18:17


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"
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Just an opinion, but I cannot see the Youghiogheny ever being a viable recreational resource without stocking. Not unless the dam were removed-- in other word, never.


Posted on: 3/16 9:13
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Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7599
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Quote:

shortrod2 wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
[quote]
Have you brought this up with your chapter president and other chapter leaders? And/or state-wide PATU leaders? And given them ideas on how you think this might be accomplished?


Dwight,
It was not my idea but, I was referring to work already done by Chestnut Ridge TU. I used it as an example of TU working on a stocked fishery in an honest attempt to encourage a wild trout population. I think this is a valid en devour for TU. Does anyone not agree?

I don't agree, the reason being that stocked fish seldom successfully spawn, meaning that even if they do, because they are stocked they haven't the ability to produce fish that have the skills to survive and reproduce. Now if you were going to stock wild fish from a drainage nearby, that's another story. But the habitat and water quality has to be suitable for wild trout and spawning.

Posted on: 3/16 16:40


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
Posts: 1373
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Quote:

k-bob wrote:
Wild and native trout face many issues in PA - AMD, habitat loss, physical barriers incl dams and culverts, acid rain, channel damage, harvest in stocked streams, etc. TU does some great things on these. But the history of TU may play role in what imho is an overemphasis on stocking today given the current policies of the pfbc and the political realities of PA... History of TU from TU's website, first two sentences:

"July 2009 marked the 50th anniversary of TU's founding on the banks of the Au Sable River near Grayling, Michigan. The 16 fishermen who gathered at the home of George Griffith were united by their love of trout fishing, and by their growing discontent with the state's practice of stocking its waters with "cookie cutter trout"—catchable-sized hatchery fish."

When TU works on AMD, habitat loss, dams and culverts, acid rain, channel damage, etc., probably few of the state's fishermen would mind, and many would probably approve.

And I am sure TU did great things in getting the resource based class A system etc., set up in PA, and imho it's a good system.

But where TU continues to work against stocking today in a state where the vast majority of trout anglers do at least some stockie fishing, they may wind up in angler v angler disagreements that TU as a relatively small group may not win. Even where TU does win against stocking in PA today, it may be at the cost of alienating other anglers.

I give a few clams to the TU/Orvis culvert replacement program, where gifts are matched, and have spent some time surveying streams with a TU biologist, hope to do it again.

But stocking may not be the only or even the major issue facing our state's wild and native trout today, and spending too much energy on it may not always be the most productive path, imho....

You may want to believe it badly but I hate to tell you that TU does not "work against stocking" or continue to spend too much time or energy on the stocking issue. The fact is TU's point about stocking is that it's not much of an interest or issue to TU or it's mission and I believe that is a point of the policy in the first place. It's not the that Tu actively works against stocking, it's that stocking is not really a part of TU's mission and it wants to make sure chapters are aware of that and in line with the mission and their efforts consumed by stocking. sure, where it makes sense Tu may advoctate for no stocking but it does not spend much time or money campaigning against it.

Posted on: 3/17 13:52
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Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
Posts: 1373
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Quote:

Chaz wrote:
Quote:

shortrod2 wrote:
Quote:

troutbert wrote:
[quote]
Have you brought this up with your chapter president and other chapter leaders? And/or state-wide PATU leaders? And given them ideas on how you think this might be accomplished?


Dwight,
It was not my idea but, I was referring to work already done by Chestnut Ridge TU. I used it as an example of TU working on a stocked fishery in an honest attempt to encourage a wild trout population. I think this is a valid en devour for TU. Does anyone not agree?

I don't agree, the reason being that stocked fish seldom successfully spawn, meaning that even if they do, because they are stocked they haven't the ability to produce fish that have the skills to survive and reproduce. Now if you were going to stock wild fish from a drainage nearby, that's another story. But the habitat and water quality has to be suitable for wild trout and spawning.


I'm pretty sure that's what he's talking about, improving the habitat of a currently stocked stream enough so conditions are favorable enough that a wild population can exist or flourish. I don't think he's saying stockiing to produce a wild trout fishery. The PFBC has already named several rivers where they want to explore or further this possibility. The Lehigh is one on tyhat list (wild as well as stocked trout already exist.) I'm not sure why the Yough didn't make the list. It sounds like wild trout do exist in some tribs and I know the Chestnut Ridge chapter & other organizations have been involved in a lot of AMD abatement projects there so maybe that needs to continue some more for a thriving wild trout population to be more of a reality?

Posted on: 3/17 14:08
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"Right turn, Clyde."


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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RR: "I hate to tell you that TU does not "work against stocking" or continue to spend too much time or energy on the stocking issue."

I think you have a point: PATU is 13000 people, of course there's diversity of opinion w/in TU. Imho PATU president B Wagner takes a reasonable and realistic position below, as quoted, given everything involved in the proposed rule change:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/sport ... nges_in_the_water_in.html

"Pennsylvania Trout Unlimited Council President Brian Wagner, a Forks Township resident, said that TU sees the new proposal as a positive step by the PFBC toward conservation of wild trout.

"While Pa Trout Unlimited generally believes that streams with a self-sustaining Class A population should not be stocked, the appropriate designation of these stream sections as Class A will provide the streams with the higher water quality protections that they deserve.""

Posted on: 3/18 6:51

Edited by k-bob on 2014/3/18 7:38:35


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7599
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Quote:

troutbert wrote:
It is kind of interesting that on paflyfish you have these two common types of posts regarding TU:

1) TU is fringe, extremist, bad, I cannot support them, etc.

2) Whenever someone wants something improved, i.e. better fisheries management, cleaning up the water, riparian or habitat improvements, etc., then the message is: "TU should do X, Y, Z."



An excellent point TB, the other thing offered is something like Why doesn't T.U. do something about----

Posted on: 3/18 16:38


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 18289
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That reminds me. I noticed that I got my DU renewal notice yesterday.

Not a typo.

Posted on: 3/19 8:34
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There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
Posts: 1373
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For you guys that still think TU is a fringe group or alienates anglers that fish for stocked trout here's a little story of some recent activity by local chapter members. On my way home from work last Friday I took a significant detour just to drive along one of my favorite creeks, Martins Creek. There's an unstocked class A section as well as a long section of stocked water (that meets class A by the way but we're not forcing the issue at all.) Anyway, I rounded a sharp curve in the road and looked over at one of the favorite pull-offs in the stocked stretch and was very upset by what I saw. A significant pile of trash had been dumped, purposely, right along the bank.

I no longer live nearby and I didn't have any stuff with me to pick it up so I e-mailed my fellow chapter members to let them know and see if we could schedule an emergency cleanup (we always have one scheduled for the week after opening day but I didn't think this shoud wait and didn't want anglers to have to see it on opening say, especially kids.) Within 2hrs of emailing these guys on a Sunday, several of them went down and cleaned most of it up. It was a pile of headlights and other automotive debris. Yesterday my 70yr old father took a 5 gallon bucket down there to shovel up a pile of auto glass, he filled it up. He just told me this morning he's headed back down to get what remains. THIS is what TU chapters do on our local streams, we see a problem and we act for the betterment of the trout and all anglers.

Interesting to note that this spot is very popular with many local anglers, at least some of whom I sure drove by it and yet didn't do anything about it. So while there may be many more PA trout stamp buyers out there that aren't TU members, the simple fact is that a small group of trout stamp buyers, TU members, are out there shouldering the load of protecting, restoring and generally giving a darn about there local streams. If it weren't TU (and some other groups) there simply wouldn't be as many places in PA to even fish for stocked trout as we are blessed to have here.

Posted on: 3/19 9:44
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Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

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2013/2/12 12:31
From Camp Hill, PA
Posts: 509
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I'm outta here to get some casts in before I go to the Fringe meeting tonight...then lots of schemimg

Posted on: 3/19 16:00


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"
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Quote:

Night_Stalker wrote:
I'm outta here to get some casts in before I go to the Fringe meeting tonight...then lots of schemimg


Me too...

Posted on: 3/19 17:37
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Trout Unlimited is a "fringe environmental group"

Joined:
2006/12/13 9:28
From Other side of the tracks
Posts: 18289
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For the record, I don't think DU or TU are fringe groups. I was just trolling. I feel so dirty now. Both are great organizations.



Posted on: 3/20 6:42
_________________
There are certain pursuits which, if not wholly poetic and true, do at least suggest a nobler and finer relation to nature than we know. The keeping of bees, for instance." -Henry David Thoreau--



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