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Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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www.sungazette.com/page/conten ... l/id/540787.html?nav=5011 Yeah, but the money's real good and alot of jobs are being created.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 9:33


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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DEP says don't drink the spring water in the area.

That's one of the great old traditions about going upstate. Stopping at a spring coming out of a hillside spring and drinking that clean cold water. Ahhhh! Foamy surfactant.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 11:26


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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It's basically laundry detergent. It's used in every drilling operation I know of, and not unique to Marcellus wells.

The stuff won't be toxic, and any effects will be shortlasting as it breaks down pretty easily. It's basically a wetting agent, and in high enough concentrations, it will prevent the "surface film" on water, hence the bubbles. I would assume this could have an effect on insects during the emergence and spinner stages.

Its not the end of the world, but in any case, this stuff shouldn't be allowed to run into streams like that. I don't know if this is poor controls or a spill of some sort, but I hope they figure out whats happening and hold the company responsible for all clean up.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 12:07


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run
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Well that spillmust ahve happened MONTHS or years ago to get into the springs.....I wonder if they took temperature readings.

*scarcasm alert*

Below...not so much....

Thats a good point TB, I wonder if the DEP/DCNR will post some sort of signage to that affect or if they are relying on the newspaper to inform everyone? Seems to me they will be getting pelted with calls about taste, etc if they don't flag that spring.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 12:10
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
It's basically laundry detergent. It's used in every drilling operation I know of, and not unique to Marcellus wells.

The stuff won't be toxic, and any effects will be shortlasting as it breaks down pretty easily. It's basically a wetting agent, and in high enough concentrations, it will prevent the "surface film" on water, hence the bubbles. I would assume this could have an effect on insects during the emergence and spinner stages.

Its not the end of the world, but in any case, this stuff shouldn't be allowed to run into streams like that. I don't know if this is poor controls or a spill of some sort, but I hope they figure out whats happening and hold the company responsible for all clean up.


Well, if if yer saying don't worry about if cuz it won't kill ya. I see. But two things to consider. #1, if its Laundry Detergent, it is probably has an extremely high PH >12.0 and it likely is high in phosphates.

In addition, it wasn't a spill so much...its coming out of the springs not running into the springs. So it is likely an underground leak. WHich is a HUGE red flag should they follow this up with the brine.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 12:14
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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Does anyone know the specific location of this drill site. The article says the spring is a mile south of Waterville.

Also, I'm still hoping to find an online map that shows all the Marcellus well sites. If anyone sees such a map, please let us know.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 13:07


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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No, I'm not saying not to worry about it. It needs to be investigated and addressed. I was just stating some facts about what this stuff is, assuming of course that the company was forthright about its identification as a surfactant.

When I say its like laundry detergent, I mean that laundry detergent (and most soaps) contains surfactants, thats what makes them foam and bubble, and their purpose is to allow dirts to dissolve better in them. They do this by lowering the surface tension of water, thus preventing a barrier between the liquid and the stuff to be dissolved.

But most soaps also also contain alkalis and other stuff, mostly disenfecting agents and pigment protectors and various things. This is what makes the high pH. This stuff does not contain those things, its the foamer only, and I would assume of a fairly neutral pH. I'm not quite sure of its use in drilling. It could be used to lighten water for easier extraction. Or it could be used to allow water to soak into soil.

It has a half-life of 4.5 minutes in water. I assume thats the foaming part itself, and that some chemical would last longer. But nonetheless, it is very quickly biodegradable, again, it was designed to be used in the environment. The fact that "hundreds of gallons" were "pouring" down the side of the mountain screams spill or intentional dumping to me, this stuff itself doesn't hang around in groundwater for very long.

While long-lasting effects are nil, it should not be allowed to flow into streams directly like that, it could cause a local kill of a wide variety of organisms. If they're going to dump it, they need to ensure it enters the soil where it'll be broken down before reaching any surface water.

And a further worry, is that if the stuff had already been down-hole, while the substance itself isn't all that dangerous, what is coming out in the water with it? They should have to treat all used water. If it hadn't yet been down-hole, then dumping it would be fine so long as it enters the soil and doesn't discharge directly to surface water.

Posted on: 2010/3/17 13:07


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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This News Blog has quite a bit of info concerning the "goings on" in the Potter/Tioga area in regards to Marcellus.

Posted on: 2010/3/18 6:19
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Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run
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.....from the blog......Most of it is stated in the original article but read the RDA comment below. Sounds yummy.


DEP: Gas industry treatment behind discharge on hillside

By PATRICK DONLIN - pdonlin@sungazette.com
POSTED: March 17, 2010

WATERVILLE - A substance used in the natural gas drilling process is discoloring and distorting the texture of spring water running off a Cummings Township sidehill.

The only precaution Spadoni recommended to residents is to avoid the suspicious spring water run-off in the area....

"I don't think you would want to drink this discharge," he said.

The substance leaking down the hill isn't listed as dangerous on a Material Safety Data Sheet, according to Spadoni.

"We don't know for sure what its chemical composition is," Spadoni said.

Terming it a surfactant, Spadoni said a substance known as Airfoam HD was causing the water run-off to be unnatural in appearance.... Surfactant used to treat Pennsylvania General Energy wells affected the water run-off, which Spadoni said had nothing to do with hydrofracturing....They were using the whitening substance as a lubricant that lowers the surface tension between air and water, according to Spadoni...

From Damascus Citizens for Sustainability

2-Butoxylethanol (2-BE) is a foaming agent used for natural gas production and is proven to cause cancer in animals. 2-BE is a primary component of AirFoam HD, a product that has been found on drilling pads in Pennsylvania -- the MSDS sheets for Air Foam HD state that is dissolves in water and that chronic exposure causes cancer. Testing for 2-BE costs over $100 per test, and the cost burden is on the landholder -- the DEP has failed to test for drilling or fracking chemicals in their standard tests which are only performed when landowners report problems in their water supply, not before the problems occur. Residents who will soon have natural gas production occuring in their region or upstream from their groundwater supply must hire an independent water testing company to do a "baseline test" to show the lack of contaminants prior to the drilling. Without a baseline test, it is more difficult to convict a drilling operator for water contamination - the drilling operator can claim that there is no proof that the contaminant was not in the groundwater supply prior to the drilling.

From TEDX


Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDSs)
MSDSs are designed to inform those who handle, ship, and use the products about their physical and chemical
characteristics, and their direct and/or immediate health effects, in order to prevent injury while working with
the products. The sheets are also designed to inform emergency response crews in case of accidents or spills.
The total reported composition of a product on an MSDS can be less than 0.1% up to 100%. MSDSs are not
submitted to the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) for review. The product
manufacturers determine what is revealed on their MSDSs.

The health information on MSDSs most often warns of possible harm to the skin and eyes, gastrointestinal and
respiratory tracts, followed by the nervous system and brain. Many MSDSs do not address the outcome of long
term, intermittent or chronic exposures, or adverse health effects that may not be expressed until years after the
exposure.

RDA comment

2-Butoxylethanol (2-BE) is one of the nastier things the drilling industry uses, It is soluble in water, vaporizes in air, and is taken up through the skin. It can cause a very specific adrenal tumor linked to its exposure. According to Theo Colborn at the Endocrine Disruption Exchange, it is implicated in a wide variety of health effects in most systems of the body and should be handled with great care. Studies have indicated there is no known level of dilution where 2-BE doesn't have effect on organisms. You can download the spread sheet at the link below.

http://www.endocrinedisruption.com/chemicals.fracturing.php

Jon Bogle
Responsible Drilling Alliance

responsibledrillingalliance@comcast.net
www.responsibledrillingalliance.org

Posted on: 2010/3/18 8:32
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Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning. Think the bridge will be there and it will be there. It's a mother, beautiful bridge, and it's gonna be there. Ok?


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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2006/9/20 21:44
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Not the first time it's happened...

http://tinyurl.com/ydd45ng

Posted on: 2010/3/18 8:57


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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For those of us concerned about the impact of gas drilling in the PA Wilds, and elsewhere, there appears to be some message getting through. www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1 ... 20100318?type=marketsNews

Posted on: 2010/3/18 10:43


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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I just received the following e-mail letter today from Mike Klimkos.
Klimkos is currently editor of the flyfishing magazine available free through certain tackle shops.
He recently retired from state government, and last oversaw the state Dirt & Gravel Road Maintenance Program, which is dedicated to helping local municipalities identify and correct sediment pollution (in many different ways) from the state's unpaved road system, most of which affect EV and HQ watersheds.

Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 2:43 PM
Subject: Let's Make it A Movement


Please read these articles before reading the rest of this e-mail and if you want to make a difference send this e-mail to all your friends as well.



http://www.sungazette.com/page/conten ... l/id/540830.html?nav=5011



http://www.lockhaven.com/page/content ... l/id/516910.html?nav=5009



After reading the articles in the Williamsport Sun Gazette and the Lock Haven Express I want to express my opinion on the matter. It is best summed up in the quote by Howard Beale, played by Peter Finch in the movie Network.



“I’m as mad as hell, and I’m not going to take this anymore!”



Why? Well to quote Dan Spadoni, Press Officer in DEP’s northcentral regional office



"We've seen this previously in other parts of our region," Spadoni said. "The MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) does not indicate any potential ecological threat, but we can't know until we see our sample results.



"It was a fairly significant discharge of more than 100 gallons a minute," he continued. "It did make its way into Pine Creek."



How many times does a spill have to happen before enough is enough? How can we be sure the spill is benign?



What makes this spill even more egregious is that the well is located on State Forest land. Folks, that’s the land we all own.



Of course drilling is done but how much else has been spilled that is unknown and/or invisible to us and has the potential to destroy our water? Today it is Pine Creek. What’s next? Kettle Creek? First Fork of Sinnemahoning? Driftwood Branch? The Allegheny River? The Delaware River? Thousands of miles of small tributaries?



We need to demand that drillers and the magacompanies that own them be responsible and we need to do that now!



We need to demand better of DEP, the Governor and our legislators. Let’s get the DEP funding to have inspectors able to show up on site at any time on any day. After all regulations are only as good as the conscientiousness of the drill operator on the rig at 2:30 on a Sunday morning. Make them know they are being watched!



Let’s hold the Governor accountable. The state budget cannot and should not be balanced at the expense of our children and grandchildren having to pay for the environmental sins of our generation – the Baby Boomers.



Send an e-mail, a letter or visit in person the Governor, The Secretary of DEP and our legislators. Let them know that gas drilling can be done responsibly but only if WE demand it. Otherwise the drillers and our government will get away with whatever they can – and we allow them to.



Don’t buy into the fact that the gas industry will go away if more onerous regulations are put in place. Where are they going to go? And if they insist on leaving Pennsylvania let’s hold the door open for them so they don’t hurt themselves leaving. The gas will still be there when they realize they have to extract it in a manner that is environmentally and socially responsible. Don’t buy into the gas company propaganda that our lifestyle will deteriorate if they can’t drill. A clean environment and drinkable – swimmable – fishable water will benefit us all and generations to come.



Below are the websites for how to contact your government.



The state Senate is: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/l ... mation/senators_alpha.cfm



The State House is: http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/l ... ion/email_list.cfm?body=H



The Governor is:



http://www.governor.state.pa.us/porta ... overnor%27s_office/465341



The Secretary of DEP, through his Director of Communications is:

nweaver@state.pa.us

General Phone: (717) 787-1323



If you got this e-mail and are not a resident of Pennsylvania contact Senator / Lieutenant Governor Scarnati at:

jscarnati@pasen.gov



Together we can make a difference. Contact your government officials and



To highly paraphrase Arlo Guthirie's Alice’s Restaurant



".....You know, if one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and they won't listen to him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and they won't listen to either of them. And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant (or complaining about loose drilling practices and inspections) and walking out? They may think it's an organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day, I said fifty people a day walking in (or sending an e-mail or a letter) singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. And friends they may think it's a movement…."



So let’s make it a movement!



“The people have a right to clean air, pure water, and to the preservation of the natural, scenic, historic and esthetic values of the environment. Pennsylvania's public natural resources are the common property of all the people, including generations yet to come. As trustee of these resources, the Commonwealth shall conserve and maintain them for the benefit of all the people. “



The Pennsylvania Constitution Section 27.

Natural Resources and the Public Estate

--

Michael Klimkos

Posted on: 2010/3/18 18:26


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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I realize some of what Mike has in the letter is repeated above, but since Mike provides links that can get attention, I thought it would be of use for this forum.

Mike worked for many years with DEP mining prior to coming to the Dirt & Gravel Road Program.
He has been a long time member of the Cumberland Valley TU and helps with the state flytying contest.

He is a flyfisherman.

Posted on: 2010/3/18 18:32


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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hate to say it, but I think there will be much more of this type of thing to come as more and more drilling takes place and permits are issued.
I believe there are sad times ahead.

Posted on: 2010/3/19 7:10


Re: Perhaps a mile from Slate Run

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How many have written to your state legislators about Marcellus issues, or intend to? I wrote to my local state senator and representative. Both replied, so they do read these things. It takes about the same amount of time as writing on a message board.

Posted on: 2010/3/19 9:11



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