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Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2007/6/19 21:49
From Lancaster County
Posts: 753
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Quote:

riverwhy wrote:
I did always wonder thinking they did some kind of ditching but obviously that would be totally impractical on the larger water bodies. Also, when I heard the chemicals I just thought gas drilling because that is what it is what I always associated it with.

I feel pretty dumb about posting that but you can only imagine the average person's confusion. None of the articles I read explained why drilling was done or why chemicals were used.

I guess they use these chemicals when they drill wells? If so what prevents them from contaminating the aquifers?



The assurance from the drillers and energy transport companies that this is all safe. Effects are only temporal, anyway. They'll be gone in a few generations.. Or if the effects are bad enough, the generations will be gone too

These articles are more about fracking, but suffice to say the fingerprint of drilling lasts for awhile.

http://cen.acs.org/articles/94/web/20 ... ng-wastewater-spills.html

https://phys.org/news/2017-07-hydrauli ... tewater-pollute-area.html

Still learning about all this myself, but will have a front-row seat to the Atlantic Sunrise pipeline. They'll be drilling to get it under the Conestoga river.

Posted on: 7/25 17:24


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 1427
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Quote:

riverwhy wrote:
I did always wonder thinking they did some kind of ditching but obviously that would be totally impractical on the larger water bodies. Also, when I heard the chemicals I just thought gas drilling because that is what it is what I always associated it with.

I feel pretty dumb about posting that but you can only imagine the average person's confusion. None of the articles I read explained why drilling was done or why chemicals were used.

I guess they use these chemicals when they drill wells? If so what prevents them from contaminating the aquifers?



Your question wasn't dumb at all.

Here's some info:

http://www.sacagaweapipeline.com/cros ... od/river-crossing-methods

I think they generally use the directional drilling method these days for large pipelines.

But what about small pipelines crossing small streams in the gas fields? Do they do use that method? Or just dig a trench, then backfill?


Posted on: 7/25 17:52


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2007/1/5 16:49
From Hershey
Posts: 54
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Thanks for the info! Interesting! So I am guessing they don't use chemicals when drilling for water wells?

Posted on: 7/25 20:50
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Jay P

Walk up the river to the cedar trees, follow the sun and catch a nice cool breeze


Re: Marine East Pipeline

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2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 1427
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Google and ye shall find:

http://www.slb.com/services/drilling/ ... ations/hdd/waterwell.aspx

Maybe I should start a business:

Troutbert's Googling Service. "Will Google for food."



Posted on: 7/25 21:02


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
7/19 19:13
Posts: 10
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Not sure if everyone knows this. So maybe a pointless post. But generally speaking drilling and pipelines are two different things. The drilling refers to hydrolic fracturing. Or Fracking. This is when an energy company drills horizontal wells and then blast water and sand and chemicals into the ground to fracture or fract/break the shale. This is done thousands of feet underground. There are tiny pockets of gas in the shale that cannot be extracted by conventional methods, vertical wells. So the fracturing releases the gas from billions of tiny pockets of gas and then collected. I think the major risk in this is the disposal of the waste water that is blasted into the ground. Sometimes it's stored in holding tanks or deposited back into the ground or trucked out. Spilling the waste water is bad and causes immediate environmental damage. There is some evidence that fracking causes increas occurrence of earthquakes in the Midwest.

Once you decide fracking is okay, then you need to build pipelines to transport the gas to refining facilities. If you're gonna frack then you might as well build pipelines. It's generally safer to transport gas and oil by pipeline than by truck or train. Trucks and trains spill more.

As far as I know NY has banned fracking. PA allows it. Although there is high level of regulation and study and public forums before it begins. NY cann afford to ban fracking because the states economy is basically funded by the financial sector in NYC and the other NYC commerce. PA has decided to leverage fracking for tax purposes. The fiscal situation in PA is much worse than NY. No growth. Bad demographics. Funding Medicaid and schools and unfounded pensions has forced PA to allow fracking relative to NY.

For context. From the 1980's - the dotcom bust the greatest breakthrough in technology and growth were in the technology/computer/internet sector. Since then the greatest technology breakthrough globally is America's invention of non-conventional drilling - hydrolic fracturing. And it has had immense impacts across the globe. It basically busted in early 2016. But it will not stop. US energy companies continue to innovate and bring costs down. For the Marcellus gas formation it make clean cheap gas power generation which is more cost effective than coal or nuclear or wind or solar. And it's fairly clean.

So if you want to stop the pipelines. Then you have to stop the fracking. And PA needs the money. Or pensions go unpaid and taxes go up. It also provides a lot of jobs for the people of the commonwealth.

It might cause terrible environmental damage. I do not know. But at some point in the 1800's we clear cut all the trees in the state.

But if you don't want pipelines then you have to stop fracking. I doubt that happens. Only like a 3 mile island type disaster will stop the fracking. Hard to wish for that. Unless it happens in west Texas.

Posted on: 7/25 21:13


Re: Marine East Pipeline

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2006/11/2 8:50
Posts: 1427
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Quote:

HeavyWater wrote:
Not sure if everyone knows this. So maybe a pointless post. But generally speaking drilling and pipelines are two different things. The drilling refers to hydrolic fracturing. Or Fracking.


There is drilling done for gas and oil well construction, obviously.

But what is being discussed here is the drilling done to run pipelines under rivers and streams.

The first link I posted explains it.

Posted on: 7/25 21:30


Re: Marine East Pipeline

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7/19 19:13
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Fact. But once you allow for extraction you have to transport the gas to refining facilities. So they build pipelines. I read the link. I think there is more environmental risk from fracking than from pipelines. I guess if you can stop the pipelines than there is no reason to frack because you can't get the gas to end users.

I guess that was my point.

The pipelines have less environmental risk than the actually fracking. You have to take the bad with the bad. I guess.

Hopefully they run the pipes with 0% failure rate. But I doubt that happens. Buts it's prob safer than trucks and trains. I know you can move oil that way. But not sure about gas and NGL's.

Haven't seen pcray on the forum in a while. But somehow I think he knows this inside and out.

Sorry for the rant. Good luck monitoring the construction of the pipelines. There will be some degradation. But like Dakota Access pipeline, DAPL, It will get done.

Thanks again for you vigilance. And good luck.

Posted on: 7/25 21:48


Re: Marine East Pipeline

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2009/1/3 13:51
Posts: 5
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Every pipeline crossing a stream poses two immediate threats: pipeline failure at stream crossings; and constant sedimentation pollution source.

Pipeline failure at a stream crossing will quickly contaminate water supplies. Pipeline failure can be anticipated to occur during earthquakes, high erosion flooding, stream bed failure (sinkhole), and other land-moving activities that go awry.

The path of the pipeline must be kept such that it be easy for digging. This leaves sedimentation to be an anticipated and expected condition at these sites.

Posted on: 7/26 7:10


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2010/6/9 12:35
From down the block from the Letort.
Posts: 353
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All drilling operations have been suspended until early August along the pipeline:

https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvan ... iner-east-2-construction/

Posted on: 7/26 9:27


Re: Marine East Pipeline

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7/19 19:13
Posts: 10
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Thanks. Good post. It's important to know that these companies have no obligation to the commonwealth or anyone. The management/CEO is accountable to the equity holders and in the Energy business there's a bunch of shady characters.

I assume this is in the Federal courts and not state courts given that the EPA is involved.

Good they stopped it for now. Sunoco doesn't give a sh*t about the environmental degradation. Look up their managemt and shareholders. They will stay just inside the lines. And spill. Good for the justice system here. But it's not over.

The pipelines and drilling will get done. But the nonprofits who stopped them here did good work. Hopefully keep them inside the lines

But like I said. Fracking is dirty. And if you frack you need a pipeline. And it won't stop.

Good post. Let's see what happens next.

Posted on: 7/27 0:51


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2009/8/4 20:46
From Berks County
Posts: 18
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I've been watching the pipeline going in around my area in southern Berks County for the past few months. It's amazing to me at the amount of land disturbance that's involved to install a 20" diameter pipe a few feet below grade. This is going to get interesting when they hit the denser populated areas of Chester and Delaware Counties.

Posted on: 7/27 20:57
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Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 1792
Offline
Quote:

riverwhy wrote:
I did always wonder thinking they did some kind of ditching but obviously that would be totally impractical on the larger water bodies. Also, when I heard the chemicals I just thought gas drilling because that is what it is what I always associated it with.

I feel pretty dumb about posting that but you can only imagine the average person's confusion. None of the articles I read explained why drilling was done or why chemicals were used.

I guess they use these chemicals when they drill wells? If so what prevents them from contaminating the aquifers?



They typically use a type of clay slurry for these drills. Not the same lubricants used in fracking. Causes some short term silt but nothing considered toxic.

Posted on: 7/28 12:56


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2007/1/5 16:49
From Hershey
Posts: 54
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From what I can see Bentonite is used in many applications both for as a drilling lubricant and as a sealant. It appears it is used in both oil/gas wells and water wells.
Used in beer and winemaking and ironically as a "healthy" detox agent!
Even as a topical to prevent poison ivy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentonite

Posted on: 7/28 14:59
_________________
Jay P

Walk up the river to the cedar trees, follow the sun and catch a nice cool breeze


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2006/11/10 8:32
Posts: 596
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Heavy water,
I did not see any mention of the EPA in the article. What was mentioned was the EHB, which is the ( Pennsylvania State) Environmental Hearing Board, with no ties to the Feds.

Posted on: 7/28 21:10


Re: Marine East Pipeline

Joined:
2006/9/9 22:43
From Delaware Co.
Posts: 469
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Here's what has been going on in my neck of the woods
https://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvan ... ing-mud-into-delco-creek/

Posted on: 7/31 11:10
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