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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2009/5/18 17:57
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The next time I encounter a DB client with a guide in my area I will film it for you Jack. I'm not trying to say they are all terrible fishermen, but SOME are. I've witnessed it myself right below the project water on Spruce. The sport had a few thousand dollars wrapped up in gear, all of it sparkling new by the way. I watched him fish for probably an hour and while he did manage to pick up one pellethead, he caught a heck of alot more trees, himself, and the guide. Like I said this is not all members/clients, but I'm going to assume that most are terrible flyfishers.

IMO anyone who is "good" at flyfishing should be able to see through the bs that DB spews. Most people that have flyfished long enough to know what they are doing are probably going to want to do things on their own, ie find spots, pick their own flies, and handle their own fish. While I'm sure some people like the idea of catching large trout that other people don't have access to, its not for everyone. On the club webpage they even advertise an instructional school. I know other outfits will teach people to flyfish, but I'm going to assume DB does it because a lot of his potential clients don't know what they are doing. Like I said above, I'm sure some of his clients do know what they are doing, but as a majority they have no clue. That is all.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:13
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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I can understand anger toward the concept of private fishing clubs, but just having some trouble wrapping my mind around the bashing of the clients as somehow sub-par sportsman in either skill or concern for the resource. Neither of those conclusions are warranted, but they are commonly made and likely erroneous.


I take kind of the opposite approach. I don't really understand anger towards private fishing clubs, provided they do their craft legally. I'd prefer the water stayed open to the public. But I support property owners rights and their right to not only post, but post and create a money making attraction out of it if they wish.

Where I get angry is when they take it farther than that, such as SRC does on multiple levels. Navigable water is public and posting public land is obviously wrong (and I've been on record saying I believe many of our streams are navigable). Stocking over strong wild trout populations is wrong. An in the case of Erie, using publicly stocked fish to support your private fishery is wrong. But if a stream is non-navigable, you aren't stocking over wild populations, and you aren't using public funds to create your fishery, then have at it. If your operation is strong enough to get people to pay huge amounts of money to take part, good for you, you have a nice business there.

But people who choose to fish such waters on a regular basis, I do consider them lesser sportsmen. It's like a hunter going to a game farm to shoot domesticated animals in a fence, and paying the owner not to let any competing hunters into said fence. He can't turn around and proclaim his great hunting prowess! If he shoots a trophy, I don't consider it a true trophy, as it got that size unnaturally. If he had fun, fine, but it doesn't show any great skill. Likewise, I don't consider him a conservationist. Because a recreational resource that isn't available to the public isn't a resource at all, in fact, by supporting such a venture, you are helping to prevent the resource from becoming useful.

A true conservationist creates or protects PUBLIC recreational resources. A truly skilled sportsman succeeds where others have equal opportunity to succeed.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:16


Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda
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I actually read that entire thing and am no more enlightened as to the cause of people transfering their hatred of this particular club to the persons who utilize its properties so as to conclude that such members are somehow incapable of any fishing success outside of club waters.

I will have mercy and keep my assessment of anyone who makes such a transference of hatred short: Horsepucky!

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:19
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2006/9/9 17:18
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Quote:
I actually read that entire thing and am no more enlightened as to the cause of people transfering their hatred of this particular club to the persons who utilize its properties so as to conclude that such members are somehow incapable of any fishing success outside of club waters.


Simple. These people got rich by being smart. Making good decisions about college, money, investments and others alike. 100,000 dollars to fish PA. Bad choice. Stick to stocks ...obviously know nothing about fishing and bought into DB's lies. Period.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:23
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2008/1/31 17:19
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Quote:
persons who utilize its properties so as to conclude that such members are somehow incapable of any fishing success outside of club waters.


I'm not going to claim they're all terrible fishermen. I've no idea and I'm sure there's a pretty solid mix of skill levels, like anyone else. What I'm saying is that being successful on private water proves nothing towards their overall skill level compared to the rest of the population, and they should make no claims as such. Likewise, supporting a club in no way makes one a conservationist, in fact its a strike against it, especially if the club in question is committed to privatizing more water.

But I hold no hate for clubs themselves, provided they're conducting their business legally and ethically. The SRC, in my view, conducts business illegally (posting of public water, stocking over class A populations) and unethically (using public steelhead to support private business, false advertising of "wild" fish, nutrient loading streams by throwing fish food in). Thats why they recieve more hate than other clubs.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:29


Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda
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Well, as I said, they know exactly what they are doing and that is paying to keep away from us-- even those with some talent.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 13:29
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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Quote:

MKern wrote:
They are big city lawers, doctors, and congressmen who have more money than skill.

They don't care about the "little guy" and just want trophy pictures to show their office buddies.

It's all about being part of an elite club. What sport is more elite than fly fishing (polo maybe; but who plays that anymore).

I know a guy who fishes there every year, gets in with a friend, he is a good fly angler. I don't know why he goes though.



This explanation that makes sense to me.

It's not about the best trout waters, it's about the "ELITE" status they get for being in this club. It's the same reason why my filthy rich Uncle buys $900,000 dollar town homes on golf courses here and in Florida with a private club. He's "JO" by the way(It's not hard to figure out the abrv). He does it so he can hang out with other "JO's" like himself. He feels like he is above people and doesn't have to mix with the "little guy."


Then when the club brings in a household name like Lefty Kreh or Joe Humphrey's the club members now have one more thing to brag about. They can get a picture for their office with Lefty Kreh in the water with them stream side. Then when the VP of operations that fly fishes in Europe comes to town He can then take him to his "Elite" club and have wine and cheese stream side while they play grab ass with each other.

It's about status not good water.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 16:32
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2010/6/30 14:13
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Quote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Quote:
Jack, I've been able to talk with a few of DB's guides several different times, (even though it usually involves them yelling at me, but sometimes it is civil). One guide said that over a one month period he had to take out 10 different sports, and only 1 knew what they were doing. If these people were better flyfishers they would go somewhere else and fish, probably somewhere else that also costs several thousand dollars. DB isn't the only guy with lots of private water.


Your right in concept but for the wrong reason.

I have had about 4 chances to fish Homewater/Spring Ridge or what ever they call themselves today streams. 2 of which I have took the offer on. What I have found is that those streams are NO better than the ones we get to fish for free with loads of public access. 1 of the streams had no pellet head stockers put in and had plenty of wild fish. The other was not the same and had loads of large stocked fish with a mix of wild fish. I can fish over large pellet heads with some wild trout in plenty of places in PA for free. I can fish in about 10,000 miles of wild trout water for free in PA.

Frankly what I discovered about Spring Ridge water I have fished is that it is far inferior to PA's best wild trout streams by a large margin. A LARGE MARGIN.

So your right, if the members of Homewaters were better flyfishers they would go else where and fish, but they would know they dont need to spend several thousand to do so.

That is unless you consider food, gas, equipment and of course beer


ELITIST! Everyone, new candidate for tar and feathering.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 17:21
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2009/10/15 13:45
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Quote:

salvelinusfontinalis wrote:
Quote:
I actually read that entire thing and am no more enlightened as to the cause of people transfering their hatred of this particular club to the persons who utilize its properties so as to conclude that such members are somehow incapable of any fishing success outside of club waters.


Simple. These people got rich by being smart. Making good decisions about college, money, investments and others alike. 100,000 dollars to fish PA. Bad choice. Stick to stocks ...obviously know nothing about fishing and bought into DB's lies. Period.


Last time I checked it was $60,000. A lot of these guys are probably writing these fees off a business expense. Though entertainment expenses are not fully deductible, it certainly makes the outlay more attractive. Also, the fractional shares you are buying can be sold, so it's not like the $60,000 is out the window. Granted, I think membership has to be full to resell ones fractional share and I understand that has not happened to date.

I'm just saying, until you know the entire story I wouldn't piss on their business decisions.

Now here is the ultimate burn imo. HWC members only have limited number of days per year on the water. And they have to be scheduled in advance. For example the $60,000 plan is a $60,000 fractional share plus $10,000 annual fee for TWENTY ONE DAYS!

As I have said before, I would rather invest the $70,000 and withdraw $5 - 10,000 a year for a couple of week long trips to Argentina, Montana, Canada, etc.

Posted on: 2011/1/7 21:21


Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2006/9/9 17:18
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As I have said before, I would rather invest the $70,000 and withdraw $5 - 10,000 a year for a couple of week long trips to Argentina, Montana, Canada, etc.


Which was my point.

Quote:
I'm just saying, until you know the entire story I wouldn't piss on their business decisions.


See above, drink more beer, point, aim...fire

Posted on: 2011/1/8 1:25
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2008/10/25 14:19
From York County
Posts: 2124
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Amount of money Jake spends on a typical all day long fly fishing outing:

Flies - $10 - $20 Only if I really need a certain pattern

Gas - $20

Food - $5 -$10

Beer - $5 -$10


Total cost $40 -$60. And that is on the high side.

I can manage a decent outing and spend only $10 if I already have a half tank of gas.

Knowing that I don't need someone to tell me how to cast, tie my leaders, and tell me where the fish might be hiding,

----PRICELESS----

Posted on: 2011/1/8 15:22
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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2009/8/16 20:28
From Bucks County,Pa
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I posted this a while ago. I did have a chance to fish with someone who was a star on Spring Ridge waters.

http://www.paflyfish.com/modules/newbb/makepdf.php

Posted on: 2011/1/9 12:43


Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda

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Posted on: 2011/1/9 19:51


Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda
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2006/9/9 9:29
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I didn't remember that anecdote from so long ago, but I bet your buddy would rather fish Spruce Creek than Valley. Sounds like his guide on Spruce put him on some big fish, whereas when you guided him on Valley, you both came up empty. Anyhow, I am certain that the majority of Home Waters / Spring Ridge patrons are sufficiently skilled to catch trout in wild streams, even on those as reputedly difficult as Valley.

As along other socio-economic strata, there are some spending their money for privacy, status, ammenities, etc., but why not joining a Country Club with a golf course? Most of these guys like to FF. Surely mixed in are some poseurs, but it is likely a small minority. Just my opinion, as I am not of that ilk.

Posted on: 2011/1/10 6:41
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Re: HomeWaters Club- different name, same agenda
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
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Quote:

JackM wrote:
I didn't remember that anecdote from so long ago, but I bet your buddy would rather fish Spruce Creek than Valley. Sounds like his guide on Spruce put him on some big fish, whereas when you guided him on Valley, you both came up empty. Anyhow, I am certain that the majority of Home Waters / Spring Ridge patrons are sufficiently skilled to catch trout in wild streams, even on those as reputedly difficult as Valley.

As along other socio-economic strata, there are some spending their money for privacy, status, ammenities, etc., but why not joining a Country Club with a golf course? Most of these guys like to FF. Surely mixed in are some poseurs, but it is likely a small minority. Just my opinion, as I am not of that ilk.



Jack,

The Homewaters homewaters are often stocked to the "gills" with large fish way beyond the normal carrying capacity of the stream. They are often fed pellets to supplement the natural food and to keep them from moving out of the private section. There are established "beats" (stream sections) that are "rested" (no fishing allowed) for days, a week, or more. When the "angler" and his guide get there, it's like the first day of trout season.....without all the people....Hee-ha! Not much of a sport IMO.

Question, if you won the lottery and money was no object, would you join such a club? I surely wouldn't....

BTW, I've fished Spruce in a private section (one time ...never again!) and often fish Valley Creek. No contest...catching one fish on Valley is much more rewarding than catching a bunch of hogs in Spruce.

To me, the challenge of FFing is a big part of why I enjoy to fish. It's not really about hauling in the hogs one after another...that gets boring. Fooling some tough (wild) fish in their natural surroundings gives me a lot more satisfaction.

Posted on: 2011/1/10 7:41



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