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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Quote:
"They" are playing this exactly how they want us to look at it; all or nothing. As we see issues like this time and time again, it becomes a matter of playing the system.

They want money? Waste theirs. I believe we do have the ability to play to the bureaucratic system in reverse, meaning, setting up further controls and constraints to buy our side time.


Well said. There seems to be nobody at all interested in maximizing the cost/benefit trade-off.

I want us to drill and for the PA economy to bring in oodles of money from it. I also want it to be done in as efficient, sustainable, and environmentally friendly way as possible.

I recognize there will be trade-offs, and am willing to approach those. There's a million decisions within the broader topic. Some have a tiny benefit on one side and a huge cost on the other, and others have a huge benefit and a tiny cost. Regardless of which side is which, you make a logical decision.

But nobody is interested in that. You have one side trying to throw up unnecessary roadblocks at every turn and the other side who wants to prevent even necessary roadblocks. We'd like to think they even themselves out and you get something rather logical in the middle. But that doesn't happen. It's not one debate. It's a host of sub-debates with the same "teams" always on the same sides. And you end up with each side winning some and losing some, meaning all of the outcomes = stupidity!!

Sigh. So it goes, I guess.

Posted on: 1/13 12:59


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:

...And you end up with each side winning some and losing some, meaning all of the outcomes = stupidity!! compromise


When neither side is very happy, it's likely ya got it just about right.

The current Governor/Administration is way too slanted one way (IMO) and is trying to ramrod things (favorable to the gas guys) through the Legislature before he is shown the door in the next election. It's up to us by making our voices heard the many organizations mentioned and voting for the right people at election time. The leadership in Harrisburg has to take both positions into consideration and make the right decisions for the future.

We can have clean burning natty gas as well as clean drinking water and wild trout in PA.




Posted on: 1/13 13:31


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
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Quote:

afishinado wrote:
We can have clean burning natty gas as well as clean drinking water and wild trout in PA.





Amen.

Posted on: 1/13 13:38


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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When neither side is very happy, it's likely ya got it just about right.


No, it doesn't. Not usually, anyway. Because it's not one issue. It's a whole bunch of sub-issues. And each extreme is presented as an option, and one side wins.

So you get a anti-logical pro-drilling solution on one thing. And then an anti-logical anti-drilling solution on another. And on those rare situations where compromise is reached, it's "I'll let you do something stupid on this if you let me do something stupid on that. Then we both get to claim victory. Deal?"

This is how stupidity happens.

Posted on: 1/13 14:03


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2006/10/12 14:03
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In case anyone was laboring under any delusions regarding this bill and what its intentions are.

"Mr. Pyle, in a phone interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last September, acknowledged and strongly defended his legislation’s strong economic focus and its permitting benefits for the Marcellus Shale gas and coal mining industries."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/news/envi ... 01401090279#ixzz2qZPscgIT

From PPG online article Jan 9th, 2014.

We can indeed have both: mineral and resource extraction done in a manner that is reponsible enough to do its best to ensure the protection of the environment, and the water, and ultimately the health of those who live around the extraction.

Thats exactly what the system in place now helps keep in balance.

However, with human nature being what it is, greed takes over and now a bill like this comes out which seems for all the world to want to take that balance away.

This bill is extreme.




Posted on: 1/16 9:12


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

Joined:
2006/9/9 10:36
From Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:

double00 wrote:
"Mr. Pyle, in a phone interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette last September, acknowledged and strongly defended his legislation’s strong economic focus and its permitting benefits for the Marcellus Shale gas and coal mining industries."

...

This bill is extreme.


Yeah, there hasn't been much need to read between the lines here. Though the bill's supporters have often used euphemisms to define their reasons for support, they've also been explicit about the "economic interests" they're focused on.

But the bill's language and that of its supporters is unequivocal and clear that the goal is to place economic development (and specifically that of the energy extraction and other large scale development industries) ahead of wild trout and endangered species protection.

Posted on: 1/17 11:10
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2013/1/27 10:24
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I don't know how Pyle, or any of his co signers, can look in the mirror at night knowing that this bill benefits one thing, themselves. Is it suprising this slimeball or the other people who co signed this bill get a majority of money from energy companies. I am sure their retirements are are already set just for trying to get this through. What do they care if they win reelection this year, they are set for life. Unbelievable...

Posted on: 1/17 13:59


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2009/4/11 18:51
From State College
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Quote:

allan_s wrote:
I don't know how Pyle, or any of his co signers, can look in the mirror at night knowing that this bill benefits one thing, themselves. Is it suprising this slimeball or the other people who co signed this bill get a majority of money from energy companies. I am sure their retirements are are already set just for trying to get this through. What do they care if they win reelection this year, they are set for life. Unbelievable...


Well said.

Posted on: 1/17 15:05
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2009/10/11 21:04
From Southeastern Pa
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Here is a copy of the most recent email I sent my Senator:

Sir,

I wish to know where you stand on HB1576 and why. I do not want a form letter response, I want to know your actual stance on this bill and why you believe this is in the best interest for our commonwealth and my family. I have two young boys and we love to go fishing together. When I read this bill and watched the public comment hearing on this bill that was held at Indiana University I was left dumbfounded by what is clearly a breach of the public trust doctrine in our state constitution. If the regulations involved with doing certain types of business in Pa are too strict then change those regulations. Do not, however, remove our right to the scientific evidence that our tax dollars pay for from the PFBC.

While transparency and consistency with in the ES process are necessary this bill goes above and beyond what is needed by calling for an IRRC process. This will only cost us more tax money we do not have and will bring politics into a purely scientific process.

I look forward to your response and hope that you recieve my concerns in the spirit of stewardship that we are all called to maintain in this great commonwealth.

Kindly,

It took them a week to respond but they did. Here is the response:

Mr. "Robinsin",

Thank you for writing to Sen. Smucker. I spoke with him yesterday and he asked me to give you a call to discuss this bill. I was not able to find a phone number, however, and I was hoping you could give me a ring at 717-397-1309.

I look forward to speaking with you.

Justin Quinn
Communications Specialist
Office of Senator Lloyd K. Smucker
123 North Prince Street
Lancaster, PA 17603
P: 717-397-1309
M: 717-381-5385
http://SenatorSmucker.com

So I have not called him back but I will this week. I suggest the rest of you who are genuinely interested this put your money and time where your mouth or fingers are and write a similar letter. We can make a difference.

Not that it is anyone's business but I am not against "fracking" I am against this move by the industry to hand-cuff our PFBC from doing their job. If they got a problem with the reg's protecting these species then they need to address the reg's and requirements involved with protecting those species which DO NOT come from PFBC. You cannot deny scientific proof that determines the condition of a species because it inconveniences you.

Posted on: 1/18 0:22
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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I'm not so sure the PFBC is funded by taxes. I know the PGC is independent. I assumed the PFBC is funded by license sales just as the PGC.

This may be why the PGC and PFBC are the only agencies not covered by the current IRRC.

Posted on: 1/18 0:48
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2009/10/11 21:04
From Southeastern Pa
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Good point dude. I need to find that out.


Posted on: 1/18 15:21
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2009/10/11 21:04
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I am writing my term paper on this today and while reading through HB1576 I came across this:

8 Section 3. Coordination of designation.
9 No Commonwealth agency may take action to designate or
10 consider fish, wildlife or plants as threatened or endangered
11 unless the fish, wildlife or plants are designated under the
12 Endangered Species Act of 1973 (Public Law 93-205, 16 U.S.C. §
13 1531 et seq.) or pursuant to this act.


Does that seem redundant to anyone else?

If the species is already covered under the ESA what more should we do?

What if a species is threatened here with in the Commonwealth but not nationally? does this mean we can't make moves to protect it here in state?

what do you guys think?

Posted on: 3/12 10:24
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2013/10/29 14:04
From Westmoreland/Tioga
Posts: 219
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Quote:

TimRobinsin wrote:
What if a species is threatened here with in the Commonwealth but not nationally? does this mean we can't make moves to protect it here in state?


Yes, that is exactly what it means. This is bad because if PA can do some thing to protect such a species, it can help keep the species from being listed at the federal level.

Posted on: 3/12 10:34


Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

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2009/10/11 21:04
From Southeastern Pa
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Shortrod- that's kinda what I was thinking too.

Here's more:
PA HB 1576

Section 5

22 (b) Conditions for designation.--
23 (1) Any designation of a Pennsylvania endangered species
24 shall be made only when the species is in danger of
25 extinction throughout all or a significant portion of its
26 range WITHIN THIS COMMONWEALTH.

Again, why are we only concerned with issues when they reach the extreme? The brink of extinction should never be the threshold for action.

Second, define/quantify significant portion.

#censor# politicians. this #censor# is going to get through like this if we don't check these motherfuckers. I'm not apposed to streamlining this process. I worked in the construction industry for years and I watched developments and important infrastructure projects delayed as a result of poor communication within these departments, commissions and administrations. I will also say that a large reason for those delays and probably the main reason for those delays is understaffing. We expect these agencies to have someone available to process permits immediately but the reality is that they do not. Furthermore including the IRRC process in this brings in the legislative branches of government which are always in session...right? BAHAHAHA.

Posted on: 3/12 11:04
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Re: HB 1576: Efforts to Undermine PA Wild Trout Protections Continue

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7763
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Quote:

BrookieChaser wrote:
I'm not so sure the PFBC is funded by taxes. I know the PGC is independent. I assumed the PFBC is funded by license sales just as the PGC.

This may be why the PGC and PFBC are the only agencies not covered by the current IRRC.

Neither agency gets money from the State tax structure, but they do get money from the wildlife conservation fund of the Feds. And that is in jeopardy.

Posted on: 3/12 11:45



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