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Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/9/14 12:48
Posts: 874
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Hydrocarbon reservoirs are never going to be uniform in composition. There are always going to contain a mix of organic chemicals and that mix is going to be different from one well to the next. It's inevitable that that chemicals like benzene tend to be present in natural gas wells for this reason. Those chemicals are already in the ground, and they happen to be in high concentrations in the same places you'll find natural gas, coal, or petroleum.

The point is, wells don't contain pure methane. They contain a mix of organic chemicals and some of those chemicals DO cause cancer. If you pump fracking water into a system like this and bring it back to the surface it will contain some fraction of those chemicals. Volatile components can be released at the well site, or even at adjacent sites if they are mobilized by the fracking procedure. Nobody really knows where they might be released or what the concentrations will be.

It's perfectly reasonable to worry about gas wells impacting wild trout. However, the truth is that they probably effect people to a greater extent than fish. This class of chemicals doesn't tend to be very soluble in water. When they are present in water, the concentrations will be very low. When they are released into the air, the concentration can be much higher. If you happen to say, work at a well or live near one, this can present a problem. The rate of leukemia is significantly higher for people who work at gas/petroleum wells or in refineries. These chemicals do effect people. That has been known for a long time.

The amount of benzene released varies from one well to another and changes over time. If you take 100 wells, a few of them will have very high benzene levels in the air nearby (ie. make you feel dizzy). Another 20% will have moderately high levels. Most of them will be much lower.

It is possible to monitor the benzene concentration so that this issue can be mitigated when very high concentrations are detected. Pennsylvania currently does a terrible job of monitoring these wells.

In my view, the responsibility for this falls back on the people. Pennsylvanians had a choice and they elected Corbett. People like to blame the government for failing them, but the truth is that the people are failing themselves. You can't expect the government to be accountable if the people refuse to accept accountability for their choices at the voting booth.


Posted on: 2012/9/30 10:09


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2006/9/20 21:44
From E-Town and Germania
Posts: 423
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I believe the majority of Pennsylvanians have no idea what fracking is. If they did Corbett might not have even been elected. But people are slowly discovering that gas drilling isn't all what the politicians and energy companies told us it was. However, I doubt it will make a difference at this point in the game. There is a rally at the Capitol building Tuesday at noon, let's see how many show up and what kind of coverage it gets.

Posted on: 2012/9/30 18:58


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
Posts: 4474
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I knew it would suck before it ever got here, and now that it's here, it sucks even more than I thought. the nasty fumes, noise, migrant workers with no respect for locals, constant truck traffic, etc.
AND, the trucks run 24/7, all the time. I HATE IT. trying to enjoy a quiet evening, maybe a little campfire in the back yard, maybe sleeping with the windows open, FORGET IT.
IT F'N SUCKS!
and then when the drilling is done, then it's time to dig the pipelines, and then build the compressor station, and then it's time to refrac the wells after production goes down. it will never end. I'm 43, I'm not gonna put up with this shit for another 20 or 30 years. time to leave.

Posted on: 2012/9/30 19:12


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2007/1/5 16:49
From Hershey
Posts: 163
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Hey didn't you guys read gudgeonvilles response? He spoke to two people and found there is no problem. And he is a scientist. Open your windows and sleep well tonight.

Posted on: 2012/9/30 19:20
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Jay P

Walk up the river to the cedar trees, follow the sun and catch a nice cool breeze


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
Posts: 155
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I am done talking to the wall please send me the keys to your car, and your home heating fuel bill so I can get your gas shut off for ya. Also if you enjoy having light to tie flies I suggest you get rid of the lamp that lights your bench and quit using electricity.

I do feel it needs to be properly managed and there have been some issues and the pipeline instilation has been one of them. Lets. We need to be real fracking gas wells is not new! Do some research on that it has been fracking in some for or another has been done in PA since the 1950's

If we would all rally around making sure it gets done right and is properly managed we would get a lot more positive response from the indusdry. Many of those that work for these companies are normal people making a living like all of us they have families and enjoy the outdoors. They don't want to cause problems and pollute. They try to do everything they can to prevent accidents. If we can come to the relaiziation that hey we can't stop it from happening but we can make sure things are done right and managed properly we are all better. The realization is with the number of wells that have been drilled in the last 5 years there are very few problems you just don't hear about all the wells and companies that have done thing the right way.

please let me know when is the best time to shut off your gas and how riding horse back to work is in the dead of winter.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 9:18


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9117
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Quote:

MHanes wrote:
I am done talking to the wall please send me the keys to your car, and your home heating fuel bill so I can get your gas shut off for ya. Also if you enjoy having light to tie flies I suggest you get rid of the lamp that lights your bench and quit using electricity.

I do feel it needs to be properly managed and there have been some issues and the pipeline instilation has been one of them. Lets. We need to be real fracking gas wells is not new! Do some research on that it has been fracking in some for or another has been done in PA since the 1950's

If we would all rally around making sure it gets done right and is properly managed we would get a lot more positive response from the indusdry. Many of those that work for these companies are normal people making a living like all of us they have families and enjoy the outdoors. They don't want to cause problems and pollute. They try to do everything they can to prevent accidents. If we can come to the relaiziation that hey we can't stop it from happening but we can make sure things are done right and managed properly we are all better. The realization is with the number of wells that have been drilled in the last 5 years there are very few problems you just don't hear about all the wells and companies that have done thing the right way.

please let me know when is the best time to shut off your gas and how riding horse back to work is in the dead of winter.



Bikerfish and many others that complain about the gas wells on here have a right to do so, IMHO.

At the very least, understand they live in the middle of all the bedlam caused by the gas rush, and I'm sure they didn't bargain for that when they chose to live in a rual community. No doubt homeowners in and around athe area took a big hit on their property values.

They have legitimite concerns about their health and the health of their families.

And last but not least, they are concerned about the impact on the environment, both short and long term.

THEY are the ones making the sacrifice (involuntarily in most cases) so YOU can turn up your thermostat and save money to heat your home in a nice clean, quiet and unspoiled community.

Just my 2.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 9:34


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/9/14 12:48
Posts: 874
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Quote:
If we would all rally around making sure it gets done right and is properly managed we would get a lot more positive response from the indusdry


This is what they are trying to prevent. The companies want to take out the gas that can be extracted cheaply and walk away with zero accountability. They don't want monitoring and accountability.

Quote:
please let me know when is the best time to shut off your gas and how riding horse back to work is in the dead of winter.


Give me a break. There are energy solutions that are not only cleaner but also cheaper. Nuclear power is the obvious example.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 9:37


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5041
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Quote:

midnightangler wrote:
There are energy solutions that are not only cleaner but also cheaper. Nuclear power is the obvious example.


Unfortunately we can't build any and some of the ones in service may be shutting down soon.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 9:46


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
Posts: 155
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Afish,

I have lived in the gas patch area all my life its a part of everyday life. I see the trucks fueling up every moring, I have a high pressure gas line in my back yard. Brookville has had an a few companies move into the area to service the industry. I also just so happen to be the pressident of my local TU..

I am also on the few members of this site that is not hiding behind some fake name. You can find out who I am and what I do for conservation efforts pretty easily. I am not blowing smoke I understand the industry and the process much better than your average Joe. And I am also willing to talk over issues and concerns in person and have many times.

I am a major proponate of proper management and I do understand some may feel that they got a raw deal one way or another and I have sympathy for that. What I dont have sympathy for are those that hide behind a fake name and really have no understading of the regualtions and oversights that are in place. Complaining about repersentivies and making comments about water contamination that has in many cases proven to not be an issue and not happening at the rate many of you would seem to believe is not helping anything. Your best bet is to open the lines of communication with the industry and reach an agreeement everyone can live with. Be visible and monitor your local streams and make it known that we are watching and seeing what is happening on our streams on a weekly daily basis.

Thinking the answer is neuclar power right now is a nobal idea but for the short term its not practical we would need to build and approve numerious facilities and build them which is no easy or cheap task.

I really think this forum should move to using real name. It would make things a lot easier for the mods and administrators to keep things in check. Hiding behind a fake name is the mark of a coward in my book.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 10:22


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9117
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Quote:

MHanes wrote:
Afish,

I have lived in the gas patch area all my life its a part of everyday life. I see the trucks fueling up every moring, I have a high pressure gas line in my back yard. Brookville has had an a few companies move into the area to service the industry. I also just so happen to be the pressident of my local TU..

I am also on the few members of this site that is not hiding behind some fake name. You can find out who I am and what I do for conservation efforts pretty easily. I am not blowing smoke I understand the industry and the process much better than your average Joe. And I am also willing to talk over issues and concerns in person and have many times.

I am a major proponate of proper management and I do understand some may feel that they got a raw deal one way or another and I have sympathy for that. What I dont have sympathy for are those that hide behind a fake name and really have no understading of the regualtions and oversights that are in place. Complaining about repersentivies and making comments about water contamination that has in many cases proven to not be an issue and not happening at the rate many of you would seem to believe is not helping anything. Your best bet is to open the lines of communication with the industry and reach an agreeement everyone can live with. Be visible and monitor your local streams and make it known that we are watching and seeing what is happening on our streams on a weekly daily basis.

Thinking the answer is neuclar power right now is a nobal idea but for the short term its not practical we would need to build and approve numerious facilities and build them which is no easy or cheap task.

I really think this forum should move to using real name. It would make things a lot easier for the mods and administrators to keep things in check. Hiding behind a fake name is the mark of a coward in my book.



Fair enough about the nattie gas situation.

The name thing on the site is a no-go, I believe.

Posted on: 2012/10/1 10:41


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
Posts: 155
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Shame about the name thing it really keeps a lot of the garbage and wastefull post from getting out of hand. It would be a great thing for the site if done and I have seen the results on other sites and it really improved them.


Posted on: 2012/10/2 10:57


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 5041
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Quote:

MHanes wrote:
Shame about the name thing it really keeps a lot of the garbage and wastefull post from getting out of hand. It would be a great thing for the site if done and I have seen the results on other sites and it really improved them.



I've also seen arguments on one site spill over onto another. Also some instances of personal threats. The current approach for screen names isn't fully anonymous. Many of use have been to one or another of the group jams.

Posted on: 2012/10/2 11:23


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
Posts: 4474
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MHanes,
we call each other names all the time on here, then get together at a jam and drink beers and fish together! yes, we really do.
I don't "hide" behind a fake name, you are more than welcome to know my real name if ya want.

yes, many of us get worked up, sorry, but that's just how it is sometimes when something you don't care for takes over the place you live. I was born and raised in quiet country surrounding, and I like to remain in those surroundings. I don't want to live in an industrial zone, not my idea of a nice life. I understand the economic benefits and the energy problems, doesn't mean I have to LIKE it, and I have as much right to dislike it and bitch about it as you do for liking it and standing up for it.
As for regulations and oversights, yes, they are getting better, I'd like to think partly as a result of people asking questions and caring what happens and pressuring our elected officials.
what would happen if everyone turned a blind eye towards things, gas related or not? One example is when the drilling got started in PA, many reports of drivers dumping waste water illegally, but guess what, we don't hear about those incidents much anymore. WHY? because people cared and spoke up when they thought something was wrong, and regulations got put in place.

so if we used real names, what would change? would we not be allowed to voice our opinion? would we be censored if we wrote anything you didn't agree with? what difference would it make for the mods? if they don't like what is written, they can delete it regardless of a real name or not.
I'm not even gonna start with the coward thing.

Posted on: 2012/10/2 15:50


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/10/15 13:45
From Eastern PA
Posts: 10293
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Anyone who would clearly identify themselves to include name, address, etc has completely lost their minds and has no idea of the consequences of social media and it's impact on real life. The concept that "real names" (what are you going to do check drivers license) creates a garbage filter is utterly ridiculous. My name is Mike Hunt. Prove it's not.

Posted on: 2012/10/2 17:10


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/9/14 12:48
Posts: 874
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The idea that there are people on this forum "hiding behind a fake name" is absurd. People on this forum have my address from fly swaps, etc. The same can probably be said for half the people on here, at least the ones who post regularly. It's the internet. Nobody uses their real name.



Posted on: 2012/10/2 18:33



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