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Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/2/11 13:14
From Lehigh Valley
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Heard a truck crashed or flipped an ruptured its fracking fluid into Pine Creek, does any one know if this is true?

Posted on: 2012/9/26 20:57


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/5/29 6:40
From harlansburg
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Posted on: 2012/9/26 22:01


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2012/6/11 12:05
From Lehigh Valley
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Great...

Posted on: 2012/9/27 7:30
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Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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The destruction will never stop. The wells are just the first step of the network of death. All the compressors, and associated piping and stations, will be pumping toxins into the air as long as gas is being pumped all around the state. Then, add in the fact that wells get re-stimulated with more water, and you have a legacy of toxic waste for long after profitable gas is tapped. Just like coal.

We lay all these pipes through our streams, over our forests, and they are running flammable gasses 24/7. Brilliant.

Scarce resource play again. Need nuclear renaissance effective immediately. The French, who we love to mock, are going to be selling power to their European friends forever. They banned fracking, because they have nuclear power, and it reduces air pollution and provides base load power. And they will sell this power to every nation that is faltering with their wind/solar/geothermal cluster of failure. Nuclear is the least toxic, safest power we have.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 3:51


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
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I don't reply to post on here often but wow a Truck accident got you that fired up Beast? Come on that stuff happens and I for one do think it sucks but its one of those things that happens. Looks like a basic brine truck with just some salty water for the most part not enough to cause any major damage.

Nucular yes it can be cleaner but what about the waste disposal? Remember you still need to mine for nucular product it does not grow on trees so there is still damage to the environment from that.


Posted on: 2012/9/28 13:05


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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While I agree Beast over-reacted, his observations regarding nuclear are spot on.

Mining? Yes, you still mine nuclear fuel. But the volume is extremely low. A typical reactor gets refueled only every 18-24 months and the volume of fuel they take is small. It's also cheap and abundant. Fuel costs are well under 30% of the cost of the energy itself, compared to coal/gas/oil, which all surpass 80%.

Waste. Again, the volume of waste is pretty small. Now, they do separate the waste into high level and low level. Low level waste is a bit of an issue, but it's not super dangerous and half life is pretty short. The attention all goes to the high level stuff. But:

1. The total we have produced in our nuclear history is about enough to cover a single football field 7 feet deep. That's not that much for well over 50 years supplying 20+% of our energy.

2. That high level waste represents more fuel. It's a POLITICAL choice not to recycle it, not a scientific one. France recycles theirs. After recycling, the remaining high level waste is zero. Nada.

3. Modern reactor designs, if we allowed recycling, would produce zero high level waste and about 1/1000th of the low level waste as our existing reactors. Yet, strangely, it's the concern about waste that prevents us from building new ones and shutting down the outdated 1st generation plants we currently run???

Also, I'd point out that everyone points to hydrogen as the eventual source fuel for transportation. Fuel cells and all that. But how to get the hydrogen? You can use oil, but it's no less pollution than just using the oil. You can use electricity to get hydrogen from water. But you use more electrical power (mostly gas and coal) in getting hydrogen than what you can get out of the hydrogen. Or, you can use nuclear.

Hydrogen would be a byproduct of modern reactor designs. Further, remember that the cost in nuclear is in commissioning and decommissioning the plant. Fuel is nearly free. So you gain absolutely nothing by running below capacity, might as well run at 100% all of the time. But, at 3 a.m., when demand is low, you have essentially a load of free electricity to use. That's when you do your electrolysis of water to harvest more hydrogen.

Nuclear is a large source, and it's simply the cleanest and safest source we have. It's cheap if we'd allow it to be. And it could supply us with a reliable, clean source of hydrogen to use in our cars.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 13:55


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 4954
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It's one thing to run that gas 24/7 in our forests but I found out it is running 24/7 through highly populated urban areas! Probably kill everyone in a few years.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 14:52


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
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Franklin,

How the hell do you think you stay warm at night form you furnace. You think they can just call the gas fairy. Yeah its in pipes and they have been running though town and cities for years. Natural gas develompent is not a new thing They have drilling in PA for over a century.

Western PA has been keeping you Phili folk warm for years.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 15:01


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Much of Eastern PA doesn't have gas lines. I know my house doesn't. That's unheard of in western PA, but it's the norm out here. Heating oil tanks are common. And freakin expensive. We run a heat pump with a PROPANE stove backup. Until I moved here, I'd never seen a heat pump nor heard of anyone using propane for anything other than their bbq grills.

But yeah, it's not like underground gas lines are a new thing with Marcellus. Including urban areas. The Marcellus wells are feeding the same lines the shallow gas wells did for decades. But since the range is a little different, there are areas where new lines need to be installed.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 15:30


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
Posts: 155
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I just can't see any justification to bitching about lines and the arguments they will make us all sick thats just BS.

Where does everyone think heating oil comes from I will tell you one thing there is no oil fairy for that either. Not attacking you pcray just making a point that 95% or our energy sources rely on some form of extraction.

If guys still really believe all the crap that was in gas land they need to do some research most of that was total crap. Yeah there is pollution from drilling but the bigger issues are erosion and deforestation in the long run. But its a give and take and we do need jobs and industry in PA and the US. I don't know about most here but I for one would much rather see some evergy indepenence being gained by the US.

Its all about proper management and control. It also means we all can't go crazy over every little spill or accident that does happen because some will happen. One truck is nothing it was an accident if it was a deal where it was caught actually dumping waste into the river then we got a real problem.


Posted on: 2012/9/28 15:57


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2008/5/5 11:06
From King Of Prussia, Pa
Posts: 1195
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Quote:

MHanes wrote:
Franklin,

How the hell do you think you stay warm at night form you furnace. You think they can just call the gas fairy. Yeah its in pipes and they have been running though town and cities for years. Natural gas develompent is not a new thing They have drilling in PA for over a century.

Western PA has been keeping you Phili folk warm for years.


Maybe you need a nuclear powered sarcasm detector, obviously your gas powered one is broke. Although in your defense, there are so many lol worthy posts in the conservation forum, that it's easy to think Franklin was serious.

Posted on: 2012/9/28 16:23


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 4954
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Quote:

JasonS wrote:
Quote:

MHanes wrote:
Franklin,

How the hell do you think you stay warm at night form you furnace. You think they can just call the gas fairy. Yeah its in pipes and they have been running though town and cities for years. Natural gas develompent is not a new thing They have drilling in PA for over a century.

Western PA has been keeping you Phili folk warm for years.


Maybe you need a nuclear powered sarcasm detector, obviously your gas powered one is broke. Although in your defense, there are so many lol worthy posts in the conservation forum, that it's easy to think Franklin was serious.


I don't think I hooked a trout that well this year. Yes, I'm well aware of the long history of natural gas in this country, used to have a house that was heated by gas. Quite familiar with the infrastructure to deliver it. No, I'm not concerned about running gas lines through the forests or the city. The main impact to our wild streams will be potential for additional silt during installation. In the scheme of things the impact will be for a short duration.

Posted on: 2012/9/29 0:09


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

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2012/3/14 23:03
Posts: 314
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Wow, the impact will be short in duration and the main threat to streams is silt. Short in duration is not the case at all, neither is your hypothesis that silt is the largest threat to streams. The largest threat to a stream is dumping flow back and pit water right into a stream, or mowing over tributaries with heavy equipment. Which happens all the time. As well as dumping waste onto state forest and state game lands, which runs off into streams, which was documented.

And then of course, you can buy the whole, "the water down the hole never comes into the ground water" scam if you want, but that has clearly been a case of regulatory capture as we see some environmental agencies coming out claiming pollution and others claiming pre-existing conditions.

The industry will attempt to drill as much as possible and restimulate as long as possible with infrastructure in place. That is what hydraulic fracturing is about- that is, beating that piece of geology to have it give you everything its got. And that uses water as we know, millions of gallons-over time, not just once.

And the compressors and storage tanks, well they do a hell of a lot of air pollution volume. Barnett shale in Texas produces volumes of air pollution that are comparable to entire sections of the metroplexes traffic.

The Wyoming state gas drilling has lead to ozone and sulfur pollution with readings of ozone higher than Los Angeles. The Green River Basin had very high quality before drilling and now the compressors and storage tanks are creating haze and visible pollution clouds, excluding the dangerous levels of ozone.

And in Pennsylvania you don't have to ask to many people in this state about the destruction to their health, beyond well water pollution.

For instance: As air pollution from fracking rises, EPA to set rules

Posted on Monday, April 16, 2012 Renee Schoof | McClatchy Newspapers


Pam Judy of Carmichaels, Pa.., says she fears that her family already is at risk from fumes from a large natural gas compressor station 780 feet from their home in the hills. When they built it, they were far from everything. Three years later, a natural gas compressor station was built on neighboring property.

“We have fumes that are in our yard almost constantly,” she said. “There are times when it smells like diesel or a kerosene smell. It’s very difficult to pinpoint the exact smell. Then there are times we get a smell like chlorine. When we get that chlorine smell it literally will scorch your eyes and your throat.”

Air tests found 16 chemicals in her yard, including benzene, a chemical the EPA classifies as a carcinogen. She said test of her blood also showed exposure to benzene and other chemicals. Benzene can cause dizziness and headaches, symptoms she’s had. Her adult children have had runny noses, headaches and sore throats that go away when they aren’t at their parents’ home.

The family worries about long-term exposure and is wrestling with whether to stay. Their land was handed down in her family since her great-grandparents’ day, Judy said. “It’s really heart-wrenching for us to make the decision to move.”

Paul Parker, a retired vice president of an engineering company who worked with energy companies, has lived for 36 years in an area south of Pittsburgh where natural gas development has sprung up in the last few years. Parker said no to leases on his own property, but sees the development around him and says the area has been ruined.

“When you go outside, it’s like living in a chemical complex,” he said. He said pollution comes from vents on storage tanks near his property, as well as nearby flaring to burn gas in early stages of well development and the diesel emissions of hundreds of trucks needed to haul water and equipment to well sites.

Posted on: 2012/9/29 11:36


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2011/7/24 7:01
From SWPA
Posts: 66
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I can assure you that you are wrong on your explanation of marcellus drilling. Sure, if that was all going on then it would be bad for the commonwealth. Your explanation about drilling, fracing, air quality issues in Texas and Wyoming all come from the anti drilling web sites. They have all been debunked by science. Inaccurate and just plain bad science were used by anti drilling fanatics.
And, I personally spoke to both Pam Judy in Greene County and Paul Parker in Washington County concerning their issues and found no proof as to their complaints or issues. So please don't quote a biased article from some local reporter that doesn't understand the facts or the industry.

Posted on: 2012/9/30 7:14


Re: Fracking Spill into Pine Creek?

Joined:
2008/1/21 19:15
From Pittsburgh
Posts: 2739
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Quote:

Gudgeonville wrote:

And, I personally spoke to both Pam Judy in Greene County and Paul Parker in Washington County concerning their issues and found no proof as to their complaints or issues. So please don't quote a biased article from some local reporter that doesn't understand the facts or the industry.


Yes, don't quote from them, quote from some guy that contributes nothing but pro-frack propaganda... Oh, yeah, and who has an obvious horse in the race.
And based on that, he personally found no proof HIMSELF! Of course, he challenges the reporter, but not the findings of the blood test or air pollution which were not conducted by the reporter. Well, gosh, I'm convinced! Thanks For clearing that up with your unbiased explanation, Gville!

Posted on: 2012/9/30 8:04

Edited by David on 2012/9/30 8:23:25
Edited by David on 2012/9/30 8:31:09



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