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Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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That's pretty normal. These guys work in teams. i.e. it starts with a landscape team, and they come in and get the pad setup and all that. Then it may sit empty for a while. Then the drilling team comes in and does their part. Then it sits empty again. Then the fracking guys come in. etc. etc.

For shallow gas, each of those crews may only be there 1 or 2 days, maybe 3 or 4 for the drillers, with months in between. For Marcellus, each step takes longer, especially the drilling.

Posted on: 6/20 13:19


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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Posted on: 6/22 23:07
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Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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Nobody claimed it was 100% safe.

But comparison: Here's the coal plants that have or are about to shut down due to Marcellus:


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Posted on: 7/2 10:59


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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No one but industry officials sir

Posted on: 7/4 23:01
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Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2009/10/15 13:45
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Of course you are.

Not just directly through IRA's, mutual funds, and the like. But also because it holds down energy prices, including electricity. Plus even more indirectly in that it's pumping money into the local economies which helps everyone.


Yeah, pcray, yeah, imagine electric costs here in PA over the last few years if natural gas had not offset overall energy. These people do not realize their PECO and MetEd rates have been absurdly suppressed for years.

Drill babby drill imo!

Posted on: 7/5 2:55


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2008/1/21 19:15
From Pittsburgh
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So they are shutting down 6 coal plants in PA?

Posted on: 7/5 8:43


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
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Yes. I know a couple are already offline, but not sure which ones.

Most of our air/water pollution, though, comes from further west. Upwind. And there are more plants shutting down there. The acid rain situation has already improved somewhat over the last 30 years. Combined with this is a decrease in ozone, nox, etc. This is mainly due to the Clean Air Act, and the installation of scrubbers on many coal power plants, as well as increased emissions requirements on automobiles. These improvements are likely to be doubled over the next 10 years or so, on account of shale gas development displacing coal. And specifically, the coal plants shutting down are those remaining ones that did not install scrubbers.

Many of our coal mines are also being idled. Worldwide, coal continues to grow. But locally, we're witnessing the death of coal at the hands of gas.

My viewpoint on gas has always been that, yes, there are issues. And yes, it's worthwhile to make sure things are done as well as they can be, and I encourage holding deficient company's feet to the fire when they take dangerous shortcuts. But in the grand scheme, there are problems with EVERY source of electric generation. Ultimately, if I were king, I'd likely pick nuclear. But gas>coal. Stopping gas drilling at all costs just out of principle is counterproductive, environmentally speaking.

It's always astounded me that the environmental movement sunk nuclear, and is trying to sink gas. All it does is lock in the status quo. Coal.

Posted on: 7/8 7:15


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2011/7/6 12:30
From Ephrata, PA
Posts: 6412
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
It's always astounded me that the environmental movement sunk nuclear, and is trying to sink gas. All it does is lock in the status quo. Coal.


Because ultimately, the environmental movement is against ALL forms of fossil fuels (which makes it even more ironic that they keep pushing the public back to the status quo of coal). It's a mental block in their mind. Something gives them the dilussion that we don't NEED fossil fuels right now. Wind, solar, vegetable oil, these are all ready to go for mass use. "Big Oil" is simply blocking them for profit. Everyone would have solar powered houses and we'd never need another drop of oil or gas if it wasn't for those money hungry, greedy oil companies. They truly, genuinely believe this.

Or...they have a fear that no matter how much cleaner and safer gas is, if we frack, we only continue our "dependency" on fossil fuels, and we'll never take the steps needed to get off that dead horse.

Posted on: 7/8 11:22


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2008/6/25 9:41
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Quote:

pcray1231 wrote:
Well, virtually all Marcellus wells in the western portion of the state exist in places where old wells exist.

FWIW, the horizontal portion of a Marcellus well is WWAAAAYYY below the depth of those legacy wells, so there's not a ton of danger from that.


There is an increased danger. This article highlights that potential.

" The rush for shale gas, which started in 2005 in the Marcellus shale formation, underlying large portions of Pennsylvania, was having unintended consequences. Even though the Marcellus is quite deep, between 5,000 and 8,000 feet, the extraction of shale gas through horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing or fracking, a process that involves injecting huge amounts of chemically-laced water under high pressure to blast the rock underground, was displacing gas in shallower geologic layers, where old drilling holes acted as natural pathways all the way to the surface."

Posted on: 7/11 15:42
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Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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Again, read and try to understand what I said. I've tried to get a handle on this, and what I'm about to say is my current understanding of the issue.

I claimed little or no danger from the horizontal component of the well. I did not claim that legacy wells are no danger at all. They clearly are. Hard to dispute a 30 foot geyser from a legacy well.

All wells begin at the surface, and must pass through surface layers. A well is vertical for 5000-9000 ft, and then turns horizontal. That horizontal portion is well below the depth of any legacy wells, and that pressure will not escape upwards.

The well casing, provided it's done correctly, only goes down to below the surface water table, i.e. the depth where gas and fluid can escape to the surface "under normal circumstances". This is typically only a couple of hundred feet deep. Between the bottom of the casing and the horizontal bend are thousands of feet of unprotected, pressurized bore hole.

When pressurized, this VERTICAL unprotected section does indeed pressurize the gaps between rock layers radiating outwards from the well itself. And since this is below where the gas and fluid can escape upward, no problem. Normally. But legacy wells can provide that conduit, effectively making the surface water table deeper than anticipated.

So the author is right as far as legacy wells do create an issue, and that identifying all legacy wells is helpful. Here's the sentence that, while not technically wrong, is misleading:

Quote:
Even though the Marcellus is quite deep, between 5,000 and 8,000 feet, the extraction of shale gas through horizontal drilling and hydraulic fracturing or fracking, a process that involves injecting huge amounts of chemically-laced water under high pressure to blast the rock underground, was displacing gas in shallower geologic layers, where old drilling holes acted as natural pathways all the way to the surface.


Nothing he said was "wrong", as the "process" does displace gas in shallower geologic layers, and old drilling holes are acting as natural pathways to the surface. But the fact that the wells are horizontal has nothing to do with it, and the displaced gas isn't coming from 5000-8000 ft deep.

Posted on: 7/14 8:24


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2008/1/31 17:19
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P.S. Unmapped legacy wells are an issue for traditional, vertical, shallow gas drilling as well. The same process applies. It's just that the shallow wells use far less pressure when fracking, hence the "danger zone" around the wellhead is significantly smaller.

Posted on: 7/14 8:28


Re: Drilling Near Lake Arthur

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2012/9/26 8:06
From lower burrell, pa
Posts: 643
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Saw on the news this morning that the permit was Denied

Posted on: 8/30 16:06



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