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Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2012/5/4 9:12
From Parkesburg
Posts: 560
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I fished this stream a handful of times over the past couple of years... I have always done poorly and saw very few bugs/fish... my last visit I told myself I would not return unless I was forced. I hear so many folks talking about this stream and how well it fishesd and it seems hard for me to imagine that in it's present state. Anybody fished there long enough to share what the stream used to fish like?

Posted on: 2013/6/7 11:47
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Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2012/5/4 9:12
From Parkesburg
Posts: 560
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I heard there used to be some aquatic vegetation... seems hard to imagine.

Posted on: 2013/6/7 11:49
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Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2009/2/11 13:14
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 1269
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Chaz,
It wouldn't be so bad for the quarry to shut down aside from the jobs. Moving 191 to make more room for quarry enlargement? Drill through more water tables to go deeper? Maybe if folks would learn to recycle concrete and materials they could stop gouging the earth all the time.
There is a Cement plant that does make cement from recycled concrete its right by the Saucon, they literally deliver busted up concrete an they break down further and make new concrete out of it as well as screen out and grade the aggregates. This country needs to do more or learn more about recycling resources. I remember when I was in Germany seeing and being told as well as having been told by my grandfather about how the germans recycled everything after WW2 to rebuild buildings .
I also saw a machine on the Autobahn that literally was like a train that dug up or ground up the macadam then it went along a conveyor there was magnets with bins of to one side when the magnet got loaded it went to the side an released the steel or metal into a bin to be recycled . the aggregate when along an was introduced into a mixing chamber with tar and then was transferred via conveyor to a macadam spreader/layer, after that rollers were flattening the macadam. they had a slot where a Dump truck could pull up along side an dump extra stone to the mix and a hose that coupled to a tar truck .

Posted on: 2013/6/7 12:22


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2009/2/11 13:14
From Lehigh Valley
Posts: 1269
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Nick,
this stream used to have Green Drakes before WW2 as well as very good hatches. Used to have a great Sulpher Hatch , kinda hard when there are so many roads near the creek an the Sulphers do their spinner fall over them instead of the creek.This happens all along the creek where a road is within a few hundred yards, I know this because I have witnessed this on Pine Grove Drive.
Its more a shadow of itself from Siltation and Storm Drain excess than from the quarry. Nice thing about the stream is it is a Freestone on either of its two branches an the upper tribs and becomes a limestone influenced stream from 191 downstream. The bad thing is that the storm drains an lack of a better riparian buffer are hurting it. The section of the stream that dries up due to Quarry issues is also bad but the whole stream does not suffer. It would be great if this stream could get more love in the form of Riparian buffers instream work, a good sand wand program with the instream devices bringing back a thalweg that would keep siltation at a minimum or non existent level.

Posted on: 2013/6/7 12:36


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2008/8/27 12:24
From Bethlehem
Posts: 66
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Lonewolve,
Just to clear up a misconception, cement is an ingredient in concrete, just like flour is an ingredient in bread. Cement + sand + aggregate (gravel) makes concrete in an irreversible chemical reaction. It is not possible to make cement from concrete, or concrete from broken up concrete, unless you are just using it as a substitute for regular aggregate.

I have enjoyed the sulfur hatch on the Bushkill, but it gets a little crowded for me.

Posted on: 2013/6/12 9:06


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 4953
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I think if the quarry is closed and it fills the net outflow to the creek will still be less than what is pumped today. My understanding is that today they pump down the water table below normal.

Posted on: 2013/6/12 13:45


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
Posts: 1382
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Quote:

Zak wrote:
When you say dewater you mean COMPLETELY DRY? I recall the last time they did it but I dont think it was a 100% kill of the entire 1.5 mile stretch to the Spring house. As a contractor at the time I spoke to the site contractor that shut the pumps off several years ago. He was on a project of mine. He just laughed about it as if it was no big deal. I wanted to strangle him for his ignorance to the resource.

Please do keep us informed. This meeting reminds me of talks with ACE about FEW on the Lehigh. Those pumps are the life blood of the whole creek down to Easton really. It would be awesome if they would flow constant instead of fluctuation 80 cfs every 3 hours. Just look at the USGS or fish it. Water levels go nuts all the time and that can't be good for the ecosystem.


Yes, completely dry or as dry as it gets in 4 straight hours with no flow. The last time you are recalling about (which was for longer than 4hrs) it was a 99.9% fish kill all the way to the spring house, and then again form there to the Newlins Road Bridge. (The only fish that survived were a basicall few dozen sculpin we found in wet areas below rocks and the fish that made it to the deep spring house pool.) Below the bridge is about where enough spring influence begins to happen to again kee the creek flowing from this point downstream to the mouth as more and more springs influence the flow here.

You and Chaz and others should also note that in between these two incidences that we all know about it has happened several other times. And you're correct Zak the quarry does laugh and what's more they have the DEP representative on their side. I didn't make it to the latest meetings but I was chapter president at the previous incident a few years ago and I wanted to choke the DEP guy. He practically jumped out of his seat to defend them, the guy is a typical bureaucrat and is invovled as little as possible and it shows. During that incident a few years ago the quarry called him to notify him of their planned shutdown AFTER his office hours on Friday and he didn't get the message until Monday morning and he acted as though this was entirely acceptable and why would I have a problem with it. This how our DEP feels it is on top of the issue!

I don't believe they want to expand the quarry anymore by moving route 191, now I believe the plan is for a new quarry on the northside of 191. When the current quarry eventually shuts down

Posted on: 2013/6/21 13:42
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Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2010/6/30 14:13
From Lehighton, PA
Posts: 1382
Offline
As for bug life, the stream still has a good population of sulphurs and in many areas lots of baetis and midges. It also has large amount of scuds. The latter 3 particularly down in Easton. The sculpin population is truly remarkable although many anglers don't ever take advantage of it.

The geology of the stream is not unlike Big Fishing Creek, with its sections that famously "sink" below the ground in low water periods. When or if the quarry closes, fills up and the water table stabilizes, anglers and the general public still need to understand that during low water and drought periods this section of stream will again dry up for periods of time. The major difference hopefully will be that the trout and other fish will have a chance to migrate to better flows up or downstream. At this time, whenever the quarry shuts the pumps off, the creek is rapidly de-watered and many of the fish stranded.

Posted on: 2013/6/21 13:50
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"Right turn, Clyde."


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7742
Offline
Quote:

Lonewolve wrote:
Chaz,
It wouldn't be so bad for the quarry to shut down aside from the jobs. Moving 191 to make more room for quarry enlargement? Drill through more water tables to go deeper? Maybe if folks would learn to recycle concrete and materials they could stop gouging the earth all the time.
There is a Cement plant that does make cement from recycled concrete its right by the Saucon, they literally deliver busted up concrete an they break down further and make new concrete out of it as well as screen out and grade the aggregates. This country needs to do more or learn more about recycling resources. I remember when I was in Germany seeing and being told as well as having been told by my grandfather about how the germans recycled everything after WW2 to rebuild buildings .
I also saw a machine on the Autobahn that literally was like a train that dug up or ground up the macadam then it went along a conveyor there was magnets with bins of to one side when the magnet got loaded it went to the side an released the steel or metal into a bin to be recycled . the aggregate when along an was introduced into a mixing chamber with tar and then was transferred via conveyor to a macadam spreader/layer, after that rollers were flattening the macadam. they had a slot where a Dump truck could pull up along side an dump extra stone to the mix and a hose that coupled to a tar truck .


They tried to sell Penn Dot on the idea, penndot being who they are rejected the idea because of how many jobs would be lost, I assume they would be patronage jobs, they usually are.
If the Legislature wanted to really do something to save money it would blow up penndot and createa modern agency that would actually spend money wisely, but they don't have the guts to do that.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 14:24


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2009/2/10 16:30
From SE PA
Posts: 4953
Offline
Quote:

Chaz wrote:
Quote:

Lonewolve wrote:
Chaz,
It wouldn't be so bad for the quarry to shut down aside from the jobs. Moving 191 to make more room for quarry enlargement? Drill through more water tables to go deeper? Maybe if folks would learn to recycle concrete and materials they could stop gouging the earth all the time.
There is a Cement plant that does make cement from recycled concrete its right by the Saucon, they literally deliver busted up concrete an they break down further and make new concrete out of it as well as screen out and grade the aggregates. This country needs to do more or learn more about recycling resources. I remember when I was in Germany seeing and being told as well as having been told by my grandfather about how the germans recycled everything after WW2 to rebuild buildings .
I also saw a machine on the Autobahn that literally was like a train that dug up or ground up the macadam then it went along a conveyor there was magnets with bins of to one side when the magnet got loaded it went to the side an released the steel or metal into a bin to be recycled . the aggregate when along an was introduced into a mixing chamber with tar and then was transferred via conveyor to a macadam spreader/layer, after that rollers were flattening the macadam. they had a slot where a Dump truck could pull up along side an dump extra stone to the mix and a hose that coupled to a tar truck .


They tried to sell Penn Dot on the idea, penndot being who they are rejected the idea because of how many jobs would be lost, I assume they would be patronage jobs, they usually are.
If the Legislature wanted to really do something to save money it would blow up penndot and createa modern agency that would actually spend money wisely, but they don't have the guts to do that.


A process like that (maybe the same) was invented by the Allentown street department back in the 70s. Used there for many years. Maybe still.

I think the patronage jobs at PennDot went away many years ago. Uncle was a Democratic chairman in his county and always had a PennDOT manager position when the Dems won. That ended around 1980.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 21:06


Re: Bushkill Dewatered

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7742
Offline
Quote:

RyanR wrote:
[quote]
You and Chaz and others should also note that in between these two incidences that we all know about it has happened several other times. And you're correct Zak the quarry does laugh and what's more they have the DEP representative on their side. I didn't make it to the latest meetings but I was chapter president at the previous incident a few years ago and I wanted to choke the DEP guy. He practically jumped out of his seat to defend them, the guy is a typical bureaucrat and is invovled as little as possible and it shows. During that incident a few years ago the quarry called him to notify him of their planned shutdown AFTER his office hours on Friday and he didn't get the message until Monday morning and he acted as though this was entirely acceptable and why would I have a problem with it. This how our DEP feels it is on top of the issue!

I don't believe they want to expand the quarry anymore by moving route 191, now I believe the plan is for a new quarry on the northside of 191. When the current quarry eventually shuts down


Ryan, I'm well aware that there have been many de-waterings of this fine creek. Trust me if the quarry was closed the water would always be there.

Posted on: 2013/7/29 21:21



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