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Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2008/8/24 20:26
From Mount Joy, PA
Posts: 2203
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The Donegal Creek in Lancaster County has plenty of creek chub in it, trust me. They were destroying my scuds and nymphs today! Almost like fishing for panfish with bread... But there are also trout in there as well, so I agree with your assertion that the two can and do co-exist...

Posted on: 2008/10/12 16:06


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2008/1/21 13:28
From South Central PA
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Not based on reading studies but just from my own experience over the years, in thermally marginal trout streams, which in PA and MD is quite a few unless you are in the mountains, the fallfish, creek chubs and river chubs do seem to make big comebacks in low water and/or warm water years. This year has been like that.

If looking for a silver lining to this, such a stream would be a great choice for a youngster to take a shot at fishing a dry fly, since all you have to do is flip it out and the chubs will attack.

Posted on: 2008/11/1 11:04


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream
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2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
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I would respectfully disagree with MKern's contention that isolated brookie populations have poor fish. My experience is that here in PA, brookies (most of the time) are healthiest and largest where they're the top predator with little or no competition with other trout. There are some obvious exceptions, like the Savage River in MD. Game fish that have evolved over millenia in competition, such as pike, smallmouths and muskies, tend to grow largest and best in environments where they're together. In Great Smokies NP they are convinced that barriers are the key to brookies thriving - and while more time and data will sharpen the conclusions, at this time they appear to be correct. Here in southcentral PA, with the exception of the old Big Spring barrier (which has been removed), I don't know of any significant cases where barriers have been built to protect brookies. In the case of this particular stream, a barrier might be effective - if, in fact, chubs are detrimental to brookies. I think creek chubs are native to brookie watersheds and if this is the case than theoretically brookies ought to tolerate them fairly well. The section you fished may be an "overlap" area where, this year, chubs are more numerous due to weather conditions. You might consider walking the creek and watching for spawners, if you see chubs swarming them than I'd say the question is answered. A barrier might be the best solution as it will also keep out browns, 'bows, and smallmouth bass, which are likely harder on the brookies than chubs.

Posted on: 2008/11/1 17:00


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2008/6/25 12:40
From Chester County
Posts: 289
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It's wild to wrap my head around the concept of competition coming from chubs on the brookies turf. I've never seen a brookie in PA before. I'm used to catching them in Yukon & Nova Scotia where they coexist with some serious predators--pike & lake trout, and grow quite large. I guess when bugs are scarce and ph & temp. are not ideal threats can come from anywhere.

Chubs are native to PA right? So are brookies, so what's the historical interplay b/t the two species? Were chubs once scarce? Are there a given set of environmental parameters in which chub thrive? If we were to deem that "playing a hand", i.e. kill chubs, in determining the chub/trout ratio, is that even legal?

Alright, I must get ready for hitting the Brandywine tomorrow.

Posted on: 2008/12/6 20:57


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2008/6/13 0:26
From Pine Grove
Posts: 184
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This is just personal experience but in the one stream I fish it seems that when I can't find any trout the chubs are heavy in the area and when they aren't I catch a lot of smallmouth and trout. It may be coincidence but it is what happens to me it seems.

Because the trout in the stretch of stream I do at least once a week sometimes up to 3 will sometimes dissapear for quite some time(anywhere from a week to a month) and then all of a sudden I'll start catching quite a few every day. I don't really understand it but it's been that way the last two years.

One other thing I noticed, is it almost seems that when the water is clear and low the chubs are everywhere and after a cool rain the smallmouth and bass are everywhere.

My question, which I have been trying to figure out for quite some time is: Where are these fish alternating locations at, when one moves in where is the other going? and vice versa. It's almost like they are taking turns on the stretch.

Also on the topic of eating chubs: I personally never ate one my my fiance's step dad was telling me that they are "fishy/oily" and that him and his dad used to take them and sell them in harrisburg. Apparently it is something that the African American culture likes to prepare and eat. Not sure if thats credibile, but I'm sure he wasn't lying about selling them there, he could just be wrong about why they bought them.

Posted on: 2008/12/7 10:23
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Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2006/10/26 23:01
From Ohio
Posts: 657
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If the chubs are taking over a historically brook trout stream, I would day the chubs are a symptom of a greater problem. I'm sure chubs are forage for brook trout, also. Small fish have been eating big fishes eggs and big fish have been eating small for a long time. If the balance has changed, it isn't the fishes fault.

Posted on: 2008/12/10 19:27


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
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Where there are brookies there are almost always chubs, I know some streams in the SE that have both and the brookies are doing just fine. What no one has said is that brookies are predators and as they grow larger eat other fish almost to the exclusion of bugs and small stuff.
Some of the streams I fish it is obvious, because when left at the top of the food chain as the primary predator, brook trout grow quite large they can't do that eating just bugs. That's why I'm always saying where ever you find a big brown you could find a big brookie if brookies were the top predator.
Put brown trout into a brookies stream and you almost always tip the balance in favor of brown trout, that's another reason to not stock brookie streams. Even if there are large brokk trout in a watershed the browns tend to take over. And don't talk to me about introduction of, pike, smallies and other non native fishes into brookie drainages. The brookies almost never survive.
Sal, I wouldn't worry to much about chubs, but keep an eye on the stream. The time of the year may have something to do with where the brookies may be found.
afish, don't worry about Saucon Creek, there are plenty of trout there, I've been taking photos of them.

Posted on: 2008/12/13 15:26
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Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream
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2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 8957
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Chaz: "afish, don't worry about Saucon Creek, there are plenty of trout there, I've been taking photos of them."


No doubt Chaz, but the flood a few years back did a job on the stream. The Saucon has great potential if given a little TLC.

Posted on: 2008/12/14 7:58


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
Posts: 499
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Where is this stream? I need some bass bait...

Posted on: 2009/2/12 17:50


Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2006/9/9 17:18
From lancaster county
Posts: 6435
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are you serious? LOL. which ones do want to use at bait the chubs or the trout?

p.s. Recent visits to this stream confirmed what some of you said. The "problem" took care of its self and the chubs have moved out. Most likely too acidic for them to live in. All my worry for nothing but i thought it was an interesting subject to say the least.

Posted on: 2009/2/13 19:05
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Re: A Lancaster County Brookie Stream

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2006/12/3 21:01
From Mechanicsburg, Pa
Posts: 499
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The chubs of course. I love fishing for brook trout but chances are the stream maybe a little too small for my liking. I am hoping a trip to rattling run however.

Posted on: 2009/2/13 19:40



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