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Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13485
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First, the indicators aren't perfect. Thats why there's a bunch of them. Having none very likely means stocked, having all very likely means wild, but having some and not others is a judgement call.

Plus, your fish does have the eye spot. It's faint and gray, but its there. I've seen them range from gray to blue to black.

It's wild.

Posted on: 2011/6/17 12:24


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2011/6/2 10:00
From SE PA
Posts: 7
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I think, I see what your talking about. It looks like an ash smug right behind the eye. When I read spot in the previous post I was thinking more of a defined spot like the others on the body.

Thanks for clarifying.

Posted on: 2011/6/18 8:20


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

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2010/1/21 17:06
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
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all of these fish are either fingerlings or wilds from the same stream... so hard to tell, but I would like to see someone take a crack at it. Some of the lings get the blue spot.

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March fish, pale... colored up quite nice by june... territorial fish

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way up towards the headwaters in the posted sections.. surely natural repro, but the bigger they get, the harder imo, as I guarantee some of these are wild but don't look so:

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Posted on: 2011/6/19 0:09
_________________
Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis.

-Art Lee


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

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2010/8/9 16:23
Posts: 3364
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The long, and short, of it; it is impossible to determine with any certainty without genealogical evaluation whether a fish is wild or stocked. As people have said before, there are some good indicators in determining a fishes origin, but none of them are airtight.

I think some of the indicators are bordering on junk science and people take a lot of liberty when they make evaluations.

Perhaps an easier question would be is there a god?

Posted on: 2011/6/19 0:27


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2006/12/29 10:00
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2013
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True statement.
As I am merely a fisherman, if a fish "sure looks wild", I'll call it wild and be satisfied with it. If it "kinda looks wild", I just dont call it wild. Im pretty confident with the amount of them that I've caught by now that I'm correct atleast in the 90 percentile.
And sometimes, that fish that "sure looks wild", can be a very satisfying catch.

Posted on: 2011/6/19 9:12
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Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

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2006/11/2 8:50
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It's interesting how these discussions have changed on the paflyfish board since the early days of the website. Back then there was far greater skepticism about the extent of wild trout populations in PA.

Posted on: 2011/6/19 9:46


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13485
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Steve,

My shot. All of them could go either way for me, so its just a shot, nothin more. All very pretty fish.

1. Wild
2. Fingerling
3. Fingerling
4. Fingerling
5. Wild
6. Wild
7. Unsure, but boy is that pretty. Great butter color!
8. The underwater one. Wild, more confident of this one than the others.

Posted on: 2011/6/19 11:01


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2010/1/21 17:06
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
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cray,

I labeled exactly as you have...

sender is right, without genetics, it's impossible to determine. I will say, on the stream these fish came from, i'd rather catch the fingerlings as they put up a hell of a fight.

the local chapter has a pipe dream to turn this place into the next little j... quite frankly, I don't want to see that happen. Last year, we had a very difficult year and there were never many anglers out. I never had to wait to fish any section of the stream and was catching very large fish, all 15 or bigger.

This year, a lot of the smaller lings from years prior are in the 12-15 range, making the fishing easier, however, I witnessed a lot of creeling from idiots who have no respect for what is going on here, which is why I'm against making the place more known/accessible.

Posted on: 2011/6/19 16:02
_________________
Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis.

-Art Lee


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2010/1/21 17:06
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
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http://www.troutnut.com/topic/3205/St ... -vs-wild-trout-appearance

an interesting thread over at troutnut... cray, check out the blue on that brown a few posts down!

Posted on: 2011/6/22 6:00
_________________
Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis.

-Art Lee


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2006/9/13 10:18
From LV
Posts: 7642
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I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you guys about without genetics you don't know for sure. If you take into account where you are fishing, and if it is a stocked stream the stocking rate, you can pretty much nail it every time.
I'd say the first brown is wild the next three are stocked and the last four are wild, but you cannot see all the fins of the fish so all bets are off.

Posted on: 2011/6/22 21:23
_________________
There is always time to do more to protect wild trout.


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2008/1/31 17:19
From Pretty much everywhere at some point, Thorndale today.
Posts: 13485
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Well, I think genetics CAN BE an indicator like the others, I never said you could be "sure", meaning like the others, it's not airtight. Just another indicator.

And that one is more difficult than the others. It requires knowing the stream and its wild stock well, it requires knowing the PFBC strain well, and it requires a substantial difference between the two (which isn't always the case).

Most of us said 90 or 95%. If that accounts for "pretty much every time" then we're in agreement. The issues are streams that have both stocked and wild fish in the same water, where the stocked fish (fingerling or adult) can live for at least more than a year. There are MANY such streams. But even given all of those circumstances, you can more often than not still hazard an awfully good guess.

By the way, I fished that one stream with the big brookies again recently, and got a few. One was definitely a fresh stocker, and 2 were smallish and definitely wild. But the others were like those ones before. That's an example of where I'm not sure. There are both stocked fish and wild fish in the same water. Then there are the large colored up ones. Fins were perfectly formed, but they were opaque and the black/white line wasn't sharp. I still lean stocked holdovers. I was pretty confident of that till I talked to you and Mike at the FF show, which put some doubt in my mind, and that doubt does still exist. But seeing them again I can't bring myself to get on board with it. Wish I woulda had the camera along.

Posted on: 2011/6/22 23:38


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2010/1/21 17:06
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
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so chaz,

is this fish wild or stocked? comes from class a waters.

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Posted on: 2011/6/22 23:44
_________________
Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis.

-Art Lee


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2010/1/21 17:06
From Southwest, Pa
Posts: 1069
Offline
i also can put to rest the most wild brooks don't exceed 10 inches. I fish a water that has been named here and catch at least 5 or more wild brooks over 10 inches everytime I go, not to mention large browns up to 15.

it's NEARLY impossible w.o genetics... truly

Posted on: 2011/6/22 23:47
_________________
Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets down stream, mend, and wait out each fly swing, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates to the angler to role of butler, rather than nemesis.

-Art Lee


Re: Wild Trout vs. Stocked

Joined:
2006/12/29 10:00
From Harrisburg
Posts: 2013
Offline
Chaz wrote:
Quote:
you can pretty much nail it every time.


Quote:
pretty much


Two key words in almost any sentence they are included in. What that tells me is that we are "pretty much" in agreement, not disagreement.

Posted on: 2011/6/23 5:40



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