Tying fly to leader or tippet

[FlyForFun]

Ok this may be a dumb question but I am curious. I have seen guys tie the flie directly to the leader and attach another using tippet from the hook of the first. But i have also heard that you attach tippet to the leader and then the first fly to the end of that tippet. Which would you recommend? I am not sure being very new to the sport and thought that you would eat up your leader faster tying flies and clipping them off directly to the leader. Thanks for the help.

 

[Makee]

you are correct, you will eat up the leader quickly by attaching the first fly to the leader. I will always add 2 - 3 feel of tippet to a new leader and attach my first fly to that. It allows me to have a longer life of that leader. When i first started fishing i didn't attach any tippet and i went through leaders like it was my job. Now i think the leader i have on has been on there for about 2 or 3 months, started as a 9 foot leader and is now about 8 feet, I just keep adding tippet to it.

 

[FlyForFun]

Now i am fishing a 4wt rod and Im not sure how long the leader is on it. Can i use 5x tippet to tie on? And what knot do i use?

 

[Chaz]

I always use tippet when tying on a fly.

 

[BrookieChaser]

If using a tapered leader it will have tippet "built in". For example, a 9' 5x leader will taper to 5x. So you could use 6"-8" of it up then tie on tippet. The tippet is usually softer and aids in laying the fly out on the cast.

Tippet size is relative to fly size. Example: size 12 fly = 4x = (fly size/4) + 1. This is important when fishing dry flies. Using too large a fly for the tippet will cause the tippet to twist up.

I carry 2x-6x with me. With 4x being my most used.

I use a blood knot for leader to tippet connection but I've recommended tippet rings to beginners I've taught to shorten the learning curve.

Now the second part, the tandem nymph rig or dry dropper can be created by tying another piece of tippet off the bend of the hook on the first fly and attaching another fly to said tippet.

 

[AkDan76]

Here's a good how to on fishing tandem flies in multiple rigs.
http://www.amazon.com/Fishing-Tandem-Flies-Tactics-Techniques/dp/0979346002

Also google Czech nymphing they show different methods of rigging double and triple droppers for nymphing

Another good leader to tippet knot is a triple surgeons. Its much easier to tie. The double is not as durable as the triple imho.......if you're having issues with a blood knot. You could also give a orvis tippet knot a go as well.


As for the leader vs tippet. A simple analogy is the leader is the tapered section either knotted or smooth, the tippet is the actual diameter you're fishing, a 5x leader is really 5x tippet. Its generally the last 1.5' to 3' of the overall leader length that is the actual tippet marked on the packaging. You can easily see where the tippet stops and the leader starts by looking at your leader. A 12' leader generally has 3' of tippet. a 7.5' leader generally has 1.5' of tippet.

Once you use up the tippet by changing flies out or cutting out wind knots, you'll need to replace it or buy a new leader. replacing tippet is much cheaper.

You can add to the OAL length of the leader by adding different poundage tippet material. You may find buying a 9' 4x leader is a good thing, and carrying 4-8x spools of material you can easily increase this leader in length and reduce it in diameter if needed.

You can easily make a tapered knotted leader with heavier mono as well. It's not a bad idea to practice blood knots with say 10lb or heavier mono as tying is generally easier as long as the mono you're using isn't overly stiff. 20lb trilene XL is easy to demonstrate with. Trying to learn streamside with 8x is a lesson in futility.

I do the same thing brookie does, carrying 3x-6x normally, though I did fish primarily with 8x on my droppers while in PA.

 

[AkDan76]

one other thing I didn't think of....

If you are really a tinker'r and want to learn about leaders, google how to build your own knotted tapered leaders...you'll learn why things are the way they are even if you don't care to build them yourself.

 

[FlyForFun]

wow guys thanks for all the answers! appreciate all the help.

 

[WildTigerTrout]

I have built my own knotted leaders since I started flyfishing. I also have the advantage of two very good mentors to show me the finer points of flyfishing and fly tying. The first you would not know but the other many of you do. It's none other than my friend and flyfishing mentor, Dave Rothrock AKA Old Lefty. I know he would not want me to say it but he has forgotten more about flyfishing and fly tying than I will ever know, but I guess I have learned enough to get by. IMO you cannot beat a handtied knotted leader. You can modify it in any number of ways to fit nearly all conditions you may encounter. In other words it's custom made ANY way you like. I have committed the formula's to memory. If I lose the first two sections of my leader I know what is required (Length and diameter) to replace them. I also tie a tippet ring to the end of my leader and then attach the tippet to it. It is very easy to replace the tippet and the leader remains the same length as the original. I can fish dry flies one minute and with a little modification to my leader switch to nymphs and lose very little fishing time. IMO it would be to your advantage to learn how to tie your own. Good luck and enjoy. WTT

 

[pcray1231]

I do tend to agree on hand tied leaders. In my evolution as a fisherman, switching from store bought, tapered leaders to hand tied leaders was a HUGE step up. Probably the single biggest jump I took.

Honestly I don't go nuts with formulas. I do start them off based on a formula, but after about 3 hrs of fishing, it's so bastardized who knows what it is any longer. Just so you know the concepts of what does what.

It's not uncommon to have a 6 ft leader with < 1 ft of tippet to get up under that limb there. Then a pool upstream it's now 10 feet with 4 ft of tippet to get some more drag-free time in that tricky back eddy. Then a pool later, you're high stick - deep dredging, and to help with drag and to get it down you put on 7 additional ft of flat tippet. I'm always playing with my leaders.

 

[afishinado]

pcray1231 wrote:
I do tend to agree on hand tied leaders. In my evolution as a fisherman, switching from store bought, tapered leaders to hand tied leaders was a HUGE step up. Probably the single biggest jump I took.

Honestly I don't go nuts with formulas. I do start them off based on a formula, but after about 3 hrs of fishing, it's so bastardized who knows what it is any longer. Just so you know the concepts of what does what.

It's not uncommon to have a 6 ft leader with < 1 ft of tippet to get up under that limb there. Then a pool upstream it's now 10 feet with 4 ft of tippet to get some more drag-free time in that tricky back eddy. Then a pool later, you're high stick - deep dredging, and to help with drag and to get it down you put on 7 additional ft of flat tippet. I'm always playing with my leaders.

Agree with Pat ^ cept I hand furl my leader butts with mono and adjust my leader taper by knotting mono sections of varying lengths and/or diameters. You can peek at the leader formulas, but after experimenting a bit on your own, you will be able to come up with a combination to do the job at hand.

As a beginner, I recommend buying a standard tapered leader and tying on tippet. It should work fine. At some point, later on, you may want to experiment with different types of leaders. Keep it simple in the beginning.

 

[AkDan76]

afish,

What weight mono are you using 2lbs? I've run 6/0 uni for furling in the past. I have silk coming for doing some furled fly lines along with horse hair for doing leaders and maybe a short line as well. I never could get a mono furled the way I wanted it. The good ones sure look great.

 

[afishinado]

AkDan76 wrote:
afish,

What weight mono are you using 2lbs? I've run 6/0 uni for furling in the past. I have silk coming for doing some furled fly lines along with horse hair for doing leaders and maybe a short line as well. I never could get a mono furled the way I wanted it. The good ones sure look great.

AK,

For trout weight leaders (3-5wt) I use Trilene 4lb and use 6 or 8lb for heavier leaders. I find Trilene to be fairly supple to use as a leader butt, but any mono will work.

I do not use a jig and motor/drill to make my leaders. I furl them by hand and taper them by furling sections of line together. They remain supple and don't tend to coil because they are not twisted thousands of times.

From my experience, when using the jig and motor method, tying thread makes a better furled leader than mono. YMMV. HTH.

 

[bdfish]

To original poster: watercraft makes a nice fueled leader with a small ring on the end. Just add some topper and tie on your first fly. These work great and easy. Hand tied leaders are awesome but this is an easy way to go for a beginner.

 

[bdfish]

Sorry that is feather craft. Stupid auto correct.

 

[AkDan76]

Thanks Afish I'm running a jig and drill to build them. I've moved up to a 3 ply jig for doing the silk fly lines, waiting on garb to get up here. I haven't tried furling by hand with mono, my attempts with the jig were short of flustering!