Made it out! Quite a few questions.

[mgh-pa]

Well after planning to get into FFing for the last year and never finding the time to actually get on the water, I told myself that this would be the year. Couldn't make it for the opening weekend, but last night, I decided to do a spur of the moment quick trip to a section of Lycoming about 5 minutes from home. I've never fished this section before in my spin fishing days, and really don't see many people fishing it when I'm running down there, but I thought I would give it a try. It's a fairly narrow section of stream (about 15yds in some spots up to about 40yds in others), and relatively shallow, most places I could wade straight across never going above my thighs. It's an area with little vegetation around most sections, just timber left over from high water.

Anyways, I only had about 45 minutes, so it was going to be a quick trip. Now, mind you this was only my second time CASTING a flyrod, and first time ever fishing open water with one. I learned a lot, including:

-I'm terrible at it

-My casting needs SERIOUS work

-Roll casts aren't as easy as the videos make it look

-I'm terrible at it :-D

I didn't catch anything, but I enjoyed just wading and casting. I fished mostly with a greenie weenie, because I'm pretty much new to all of this, and I felt it was a safe bet since I didn't see any fish rising. However, there was definitely a lot of bugs on the water (dare I say a hatch?). I really tried catching one, but couldn't, haha, but the best way to describe it would be like a thinner bodied moth. Almost a large version of a trico (from what I've researched). Any idea what his might have been? Oddly enough, there were NO rises, but that leads to my first major question.

As obvious as this may seem to some, is there literally stretches of water that won't hold fish? I only fished about 200yds (an not continuous) of the stream), and I just felt like there were a few sections that MAY have a fish holing up in a pocket, but the shallowness kind of had be turned off. When I start out fishing more water here locally, I would prefer to avoid the known holes a bit, and explore on my own, but are there really only specific spots that will hold fish? I know this sounds so very elementary, but you have to understand my experience on moving water is limited to spin fishing stocked holes, and of course lake fishing.


Second question pertains to my casting. Wow, am I bad. I was able to get a few decent forward casts, but on two occasions (almost embarrassed to admit this), my leader/fly hooked back on my line body and/or my rod tip. Obviously this is probably mostly form related, but any ideas as to what specific problem it might be? I was fishing a Cahill kit which already has a lengthy leader tied on, and I thought that might have something to do with it, but I didn't want to cut it and replace it with my other leaders unless needed.


Anyways, I had a blast even thought I was terrible in every aspect, and I'm sure I'm going to have a ton more questions.

 

[MKern]

Being that Lycoming is stocked the fish aren't spread out. You can find the occassional fish that's moved or heldover, but right now most of the fish are in bath-tub sized areas, stacked on top of each other.

If you don't mind me asking, what section were you at; I may be able to provide some insight.

BTW, the DHALO section will have fish. A little harder to cast there, but atleast there's fish.

A good rule of thumb with Lycoming is if you see one of those white signs, that's where they put fish in at. A few cars at a pull-off is a good sign too.

 

[afishinado]

mgh-pa wrote:
As obvious as this may seem to some, is there literally stretches of water that won't hold fish? I only fished about 200yds (an not continuous) of the stream), and I just felt like there were a few sections that MAY have a fish holing up in a pocket, but the shallowness kind of had be turned off. When I start out fishing more water here locally, I would prefer to avoid the known holes a bit, and explore on my own, but [color=CC0000]are there really only specific spots that will hold fish? [/color]I know this sounds so very elementary, but you have to understand my experience on moving water is limited to spin fishing stocked holes, and of course lake fishing.

Yes. "Reading the water" can be a large part of catching fish. In general, fish hold in the deeper areas relative to the rest of the surrounding waters, in moderate current with some cover or structure. Here's a link to a great article to read:

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/books/rosenbauer_reading_water.aspx

Second question pertains to my casting. Wow, am I bad. I was able to get a few decent forward casts, but on two occasions (almost embarrassed to admit this), [color=FF0000]my leader/fly hooked back on my line body and/or my rod tip.[/color] Obviously this is probably mostly form related, but any ideas as to what specific problem it might be? I was fishing a Cahill kit which already has a lengthy leader tied on, and I thought that might have something to do with it, but I didn't want to cut it and replace it with my other leaders unless needed.

The most important thing to remember in casting a fly line is to stop on the backcast...let the line straighten out...and cast forward. the line will follow whatever the tip of your rod is doing.
Cast/STOP!.........straighten Cast/STOP!.........straighten. Here area couple of videos that might help:

http://www.ehow.com/video_2353475_fly-casting-basics.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_2355117_cast-fly-fishing-tips-beginners.html

http://www.tightlinesflyshop.com/?cat=17

Perhaps someone in the Central PA area can help you get started. Good luck.

 

[mgh-pa]

MKern wrote:
Being that Lycoming is stocked the fish aren't spread out. You can find the occassional fish that's moved or heldover, but right now most of the fish are in bath-tub sized areas, stacked on top of each other.

If you don't mind me asking, what section were you at; I may be able to provide some insight.

BTW, the DHALO section will have fish. A little harder to cast there, but atleast there's fish.

A good rule of thumb with Lycoming is if you see one of those white signs, that's where they put fish in at. A few cars at a pull-off is a good sign too.

That's what I was afraid of. When I was still spin fishing, I would hit specific holes primarily up along Rt.14.

I was fishing a section along McKee road off of Lycoming Creek road. The creek actually splits in the area I was at, and goes around a small island. There were certainly a few pockets of deeper water, but not many.

 

[mgh-pa]

afishinado wrote:

mgh-pa wrote:
As obvious as this may seem to some, is there literally stretches of water that won't hold fish? I only fished about 200yds (an not continuous) of the stream), and I just felt like there were a few sections that MAY have a fish holing up in a pocket, but the shallowness kind of had be turned off. When I start out fishing more water here locally, I would prefer to avoid the known holes a bit, and explore on my own, but [color=CC0000]are there really only specific spots that will hold fish? [/color]I know this sounds so very elementary, but you have to understand my experience on moving water is limited to spin fishing stocked holes, and of course lake fishing.

Yes. "Reading the water" can be a large part of catching fish. In general, fish hold in the deeper areas relative to the rest of the surrounding waters, in moderate current with some cover or structure. Here's a link to a great article to read:

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/books/rosenbauer_reading_water.aspx

Second question pertains to my casting. Wow, am I bad. I was able to get a few decent forward casts, but on two occasions (almost embarrassed to admit this), [color=FF0000]my leader/fly hooked back on my line body and/or my rod tip.[/color] Obviously this is probably mostly form related, but any ideas as to what specific problem it might be? I was fishing a Cahill kit which already has a lengthy leader tied on, and I thought that might have something to do with it, but I didn't want to cut it and replace it with my other leaders unless needed.

The most important thing to remember in casting a fly line is to stop on the backcast...let the line straighten out...and cast forward. the line will follow whatever the tip of your rod is doing.
Cast/STOP!.........straighten Cast/STOP!.........straighten. Here area couple of videos that might help:

http://www.ehow.com/video_2353475_fly-casting-basics.html

http://www.ehow.com/video_2355117_cast-fly-fishing-tips-beginners.html

http://www.tightlinesflyshop.com/?cat=17

Perhaps someone in the Central PA area can help you get started. Good luck.

Thanks for the links! I'll take some time and look them over.

 

[MKern]

I believe I know where you are talking about, and that's a good area, but just later in the year. The fish, mostly bows, will move into the riffles. the best part is no one ever fishes them and they are easier to catch.

Powey's curve, Trout Run Park, Camp Susque and by the Mill in Trout Run are you best bets this time of year. Forget the bridges up 14!

In between the popular spots you will find holdovers and the occassional wild brown. However, the fish are smarter and in less numbers. When I fish Lycoming these are the fish I go after. For this reading the water is key.

 

[mgh-pa]

MKern wrote:
I believe I know where you are talking about, and that's a good area, but just later in the year. The fish, mostly bows, will move into the riffles. the best part is no one ever fishes them and they are easier to catch.

Powey's curve, Trout Run Park, Camp Susque and by the Mill in Trout Run are you best bets this time of year. Forget the bridges up 14!

In between the popular spots you will find holdovers and the occassional wild brown. However, the fish are smarter and in less numbers. When I fish Lycoming these are the fish I go after. For this reading the water is key.

Thanks for the information! I may have to hit those spots up later this week or weekend. The fact that no one fishes back on McKee like you mentioned is why I was attracted to it, but after not seeing a single fish rise, I started to wonder .

Have you ever fished around Perryville along Hoagland Run? That section is listed as an ATW on the PFBC site. That's also only about 5 minutes from me as well.

 

[gfen]

mgh-pa wrote: but the best way to describe it would be like a thinner bodied moth. Almost a large version of a trico (from what I've researched). Any idea what his might have been? Oddly enough, there were NO rises, but that leads to my first major question.

The only rule is that there are no rules.

But, there's a guideline:

If it flutters like a moth, but without the chaotic flight path, its a caddis fly. When it sits at rest, its wings will fold back and over and tent the body like a pup tent.

If it hovers along gracefully, with its body hanging low and somewhat extended, its a mayfly. If its sitting still, and the wings are up pointing to the sky, its a dun. If its wings are down, out to the side, its a spinner.

I won't lie, I'm not really aware of what a stonefly in flight looks like, but at rest it reminds of an out of porportion ant, in a way. THe wings are long, and flat across and inline with its back. As I've said, stonefly.

Matching a hatch? Caddis or mayfly, pick whatcha see. Which one? Well, that's easier... If its about yeah big, and kinda brown, then pick a fly that's about yeah big, and kinda brown. It doesn't require the entomology degree that some make it out to be. Will those guys catch more than you? Maybe, but they may also spend more time obsessing over taxonomy than they do enjoying life.

My theory on rises are as simple, but probably less on target. Still, I bet they're good enough for government work...Soviet government work, at least: If its just sort of sipping off the surface, and barely breaking, its probably mayflies emerging or spinners falling, midges in the film, etc. If its breaking the surface with splashing, its probably a caddis emerger. If its coming out of the water entirely, its gotta be caddis emergers or even caddis in flight.

 

[MKern]

I have fished there and even Hoagland Run (which is stocked)
This is near the bottom of where they stock, and I have always done well from the DH to Gray's Run.

I have also caught many fish along Heshbon, especially by the northern most bridge. The reeds haven grown up yet (I'm guessing) so there will be plenty of room to back cast. These fish are definately holdovers and have migrated down stream; my guess is even the river over the winter and are starting to move back up. In these deep holes there are some large bass too.

One of my favorite spots, is to park at Pwey's Bar and just fish and walk up stream.

 

[mgh-pa]

MKern wrote:
I have fished there and even Hoagland Run (which is stocked)
This is near the bottom of where they stock, and I have always done well from the DH to Gray's Run.

I have also caught many fish along Heshbon, especially by the northern most bridge. The reeds haven grown up yet (I'm guessing) so there will be plenty of room to back cast. These fish are definately holdovers and have migrated down stream; my guess is even the river over the winter and are starting to move back up. In these deep holes there are some large bass too.

One of my favorite spots, is to park at Pwey's Bar and just fish and walk up stream.

Great! I think I'll be picking your brain more and more since you are very familiar with the area (I drove by the northern most bridge yesterday, and considered getting out, but I needed to get home). You're talking about the one that is essentially the creek road, or are you talking about the railroad bridge?

 

[goodfortune]

In addition to what everyone has suggested so far, look for trails of bubbles on the water surface, which often mark seams, when reading the water.

A seam is the dividing line at which a faster current and a slower current meet. Food items will often be concentrated at seams, and fish will often hold near them so that they will not have to work as hard to find and grab food items drifting by.

Seams which pass over relatively deep areas, and which have good cover, such as overhanging vegetation, or undercut banks, will often be good places to find fish. Be careful when casting to these spots; streamside bushes have a healthy appetite for flies too

 

[MKern]

It's like 1/4 mile down Heshbon rd, by the Cripple Bear. I believe it's across from Log Run Rd. It's now the bike path.

The airport is a nice stretch. It's near Trout Run. Turn down Fink road and park by the big tree (you'll see it), just becore the houses/cabins start again. They've dug out the stream (for the worse) but there's still good fishing at times. Lycoming Creek Anglers usually stock there.

 

[mgh-pa]

MKern wrote:
It's like 1/4 mile down Heshbon rd, by the Cripple Bear. I believe it's across from Log Run Rd. It's now the bike path.

The airport is a nice stretch. It's near Trout Run. Turn down Fink road and park by the big tree (you'll see it), just becore the houses/cabins start again. They've dug out the stream (for the worse) but there's still good fishing at times. Lycoming Creek Anglers usually stock there.

Yep, that's the railroad bridge. As for the airport, I fished it a while back when spin fishing. My grandfather was a member at that airport, and I've had many picnics there and even a few flights with him. I love that place.

 

[ryguyfi]

One tip on casting... most beginners that I've taught think that if they need to put out more line, they need to cast "faster". This is the exact opposite of what you need to do. The more line you have out the slower your presentation is. You may have to put more muscle into it, but the tempo is slower the farther you're casting. Like it was said before, you want your leader to straighten out at the end of your backcast. You want the leader to kind of *snap* so the momentum takes it forward. To land the fly on the water don't do anything really different but point your rod towards your landing area. Put a piece of yarn on the end of your leader and practice casting in the back yard towards a frisbee or plate. Learn what feels comfortable and keep repeating it... casting is like a golf swing, everyone's is different but the mechanics are the same.

 

[MKern]

mgh-pa,

If I can remember, next time I'm up in Williamsport I'll send you a PM and we can meet at the stream.

 

[mgh-pa]

ryguyfi wrote:
One tip on casting... most beginners that I've taught think that if they need to put out more line, they need to cast "faster". This is the exact opposite of what you need to do. The more line you have out the slower your presentation is. You may have to put more muscle into it, but the tempo is slower the farther you're casting. Like it was said before, you want your leader to straighten out at the end of your backcast. You want the leader to kind of *snap* so the momentum takes it forward. To land the fly on the water don't do anything really different but point your rod towards your landing area. Put a piece of yarn on the end of your leader and practice casting in the back yard towards a frisbee or plate. Learn what feels comfortable and keep repeating it... casting is like a golf swing, everyone's is different but the mechanics are the same.

Thanks, I definitely think I was treating the rod as if it were a whip which was part of my problem. I know I certainly wasn't slowing down when trying to get more line out. I have a big yard, so I may just have to take advantage of it for some practice. Thanks!

mgh-pa,

If I can remember, next time I'm up in Williamsport I'll send you a PM and we can meet at the stream.

Sounds great.

 

[Padraic]

mgh-pa wrote:
Second question pertains to my casting. Wow, am I bad. I was able to get a few decent forward casts, but on two occasions (almost embarrassed to admit this), my leader/fly hooked back on my line body and/or my rod tip. Obviously this is probably mostly form related, but any ideas as to what specific problem it might be? I was fishing a Cahill kit which already has a lengthy leader tied on, and I thought that might have something to do with it, but I didn't want to cut it and replace it with my other leaders unless needed.


Anyways, I had a blast even thought I was terrible in every aspect, and I'm sure I'm going to have a ton more questions.

I'm glad to hear you're having fun. It's supposed to be fun afterall. Keep a sense of humor about your mistakes and perhaps it will continue to be. Ask questions (of yourself and others) and pretty soon you won't suck so bad!

Anyway, it sounds to me like your major problem with casting is that you are using too much wrist. If your casts look like big wheels rolling out over the water, you are definately using too much. You should be able to tuck the butt of the rod in your shirt cuff and still cast. That's how little wrist action you are shooting for. At least on the forward cast. With the roll cast, a bit more.

Don't forget to "cant" the rod a bit away from your body as well.