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Re: Limestone Stream....

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2008/3/20 16:37
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That was my hardest chapter to write. Actually all stream start as a "Spring Point" Freestone stream are not buffered from acid and do not have deep zones of groundwater. Where-as a limestone spring creek has huge lakes well below the surface. These lakes find the path of least resistance through the limestone. The calcium carbonate found in limestone is leaches from the rock with increases the pH. The all kinds of other reactions happen so you have high nutrients in the stream casuing for weedbeds, bugs and yes trout. Along with cold water you have one heck of a trout stream if not destroyed. This is just in a nutshell. "bam" is right you can read the entire story in Spring Creek Strategies" Ch. 1- "Spring Creeks"

Posted on: 2010/8/22 9:09


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2010/6/19 16:43
From Clinton County, Pa.
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Great book. I've read it and now reference it from time to time.

Posted on: 2010/8/22 14:34
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Re: Limestone Stream....

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2009/8/19 15:45
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Thanks for the answers. I am very new at this also. I was wondering the same thing about what is the difference between the streams. I just never remember to ask.

Posted on: 2010/8/23 16:00
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Re: Limestone Stream....

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2008/3/20 16:37
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wildtigertrout,
THX, THX much!

Posted on: 2010/8/23 18:22


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2010/6/19 16:43
From Clinton County, Pa.
Posts: 1825
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firandfeather, your more than welcome. The book is great. When someone asks me about fishing limestoners I just reference your book. If your at Somerset in January I'll look you up. Tight Lines!

Posted on: 2010/8/23 21:17
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"Even the thousandth trip to the same familiar stream begins with renewed hope and unfailing faith." ZANE GREY


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2008/3/20 16:37
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I'll be at Somerset and the fly tying symposium in November.

Posted on: 2010/8/24 10:30


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2009/10/15 13:45
From Eastern PA
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Mike,
Out of curiosity, are you presenting or anything at the newly introduced Philadelphia Fly Fishing Show? I figured you maybe one of the guys they get as a presenter, as they are trying to have more local folks than the Sommerset show. We were discussing this organization introducing the Philly show and how much they are competing with themselves at the Sommerset show.

Posted on: 2010/8/24 15:15


Re: Limestone Stream....

Joined:
2008/3/20 16:37
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I'n not yet sure if I will be at the new show. I will be at Somerset. They have not yet sent us any details about the new show. So I don't even know the set-up- tyers isle or such. I'm worried it will hurt the smaller NCC-TU show later in March. That is much more benificial to go to since the profits go to stream issues. NCC-TU give FSTU and other monies so we can continue our work projects.

Posted on: 2010/8/25 7:25


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2009/10/15 13:45
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Here is a question that I have pondered for a few months. What causes the varied differences in weed growth in limestone streams? I particularly notice a huge difference between LV and CV streams. Cress and elodea are choking the CV streams however once you get into LV there some very hard limestoners that have little to no weeds associated with limestoners. Of course there are exceptions, I fished a tiny little limestoner here in Berks that was full of elodea. However, in general there seems to be huge differences in volume. Ph and total dissolved calcium do not seem to be a factor. Could it be temps? I have not been in the headwaters of many of the LV limestoners, but find the sections that I fish to be warmer than the average CV stream. Anyone have a definitive answer? How about educated guesses?

Posted on: 2010/9/10 8:55


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2006/11/2 8:50
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Quote:

jdaddy wrote:
Here is a question that I have pondered for a few months. What causes the varied differences in weed growth in limestone streams? I particularly notice a huge difference between LV and CV streams. Cress and elodea are choking the CV streams however once you get into LV there some very hard limestoners that have little to no weeds associated with limestoners. Of course there are exceptions, I fished a tiny little limestoner here in Berks that was full of elodea. However, in general there seems to be huge differences in volume. Ph and total dissolved calcium do not seem to be a factor. Could it be temps? I have not been in the headwaters of many of the LV limestoners, but find the sections that I fish to be warmer than the average CV stream. Anyone have a definitive answer? How about educated guesses?


Here are some guesses.

1) There seems to be a lot more water weeds when a stream is open to the sun, and a lot less where there is shade from trees.

2) Low gradient streams tend to have a lot more weeds than limers with higher gradient (steeper, faster).

3) Substrate makes a difference, and is related to no. 2. Where the gradient is coarse, i.e. cobble size, you don't get many weeds. You see a lot of weeds where the substrate is fine gravel and silt.

Posted on: 2010/9/10 10:32


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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I have also noticed that smaller/shorter streams have more cress beds.
EX. Tea Creak is only a mile long and has weeds, but Kish doesn't.


Troutbert is probably spot on though.

Posted on: 2010/9/10 10:36
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Re: Limestone Stream....

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Quote:
1) There seems to be a lot more water weeds when a stream is open to the sun, and a lot less where there is shade from trees.


Bonnybrook Letort at the Quarry is very heavily wooded with little sunlight but has heavy cress and elodea. Little Lehigh through the park is fully exposed to sunlight for a large portion, yet it has little vegetation. It seems that streams have dense vegetation throughout whatever the variable is. Sections of Letort and Falling Spring Branch are both wooded and meadow, but full of vegetation throughout.

Quote:
2) Low gradient streams tend to have a lot more weeds than limers with higher gradient (steeper, faster).


In the samples I can think of this seems to hold validity. Slow streams with complex currents seem to harbor the greatest vegetation. There are almost no riffles or surface turbulence on heavily vegetated streams that I can think of.

Quote:
3) Substrate makes a difference, and is related to no. 2. Where the gradient is coarse, i.e. cobble size, you don't get many weeds. You see a lot of weeds where the substrate is fine gravel and silt.


Again, I think you may be on to something here. Sandy bottoms tend to foster the vegetation.

Quote:
I have also noticed that smaller/shorter streams have more cress beds.
EX. Tea Creak is only a mile long and has weeds, but Kish doesn't.


I have not found that length is a determining factor. Also Tea and Kish are not really limestoners, rather Tea appears to be a freestone originating from sandstone that gets limestone influence from limestone springs. You state Tea has weeds. Is it typical limestoner cress and/or elodea of another form of aquatic vegetation?

Posted on: 2010/9/10 19:23


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
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Tea has typical limestone vegitation.

I have been to both sources of Tea, the second being the one most people consider the start of the stream, and I have seen very little sandstone.

Matter of fact, the main source of Tea's water shoots right out of the side of the mountain.

However, Honey (Tea's sister stream) starts as a freestone and reemerges as a limestone.

Troutbert is more of an expert, than I, on these stream though.

Posted on: 2010/9/10 20:05
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Re: Limestone Stream....

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2009/10/15 13:45
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Nor am I familiar with them, I just read a stream project report to see what the alkalinity and pH of these streams were to see if that could impact the vegetative growth. Those reports were the source of my info. Tea sounds like a stream I would like to hit one day.

Posted on: 2010/9/10 20:42


Re: Limestone Stream....

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2006/9/11 13:05
From Lewistown
Posts: 3640
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Tea has good years and bad years. One day I can catch, or at least see fish every where, the next time it's barren.

I've heard the Amish and Menonites like to clean it out.

It's probably my learst favorite local stream. There are many better streams within walking distance that are loaded with fish and aren't on the class a list.

Posted on: 2010/9/11 16:51
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