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Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
3/18 18:54
Posts: 39
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My biggest problem has been with casting with weight on the line. The Yough has a faster current where I fish, so you need a good bit of weight to get down to the bottom. Plus, to not spook the fish, you can't really wade too close to the hole, so a bit longer cast is in order. Rolling or regular casting is problematic. I use tungsten weight paste, which I like for its pliability to form a nice narrow oval on the line where I want it. But with all weight, no matter where you put it, casting is a pain. I spend more time picking through knots and tangles because the line just doesn't behave at all the same when casting with that much weight on.

Being that I'm a beginner and have no FF buddy or mentor, I've been having a really rough time and am already discouraged. Aside from the two trout I caught in Gettysburg, I haven't even had a hit. I've lost more flies, gotten more tangles, and tied more tippet material onto my leaders than I ever get fish. Is this normal? Please say yes. I expect the answer is yes, but I'm also not getting results for my newbie troubles. I never know what fly to use. I've tied on Wooly Buggers - black, white, and olive - which are supposedly very good on the Yough...nothing. Not even a hit or swirl. I've tried all sorts of weight combos, stripping patterns, etc.

Not meaning to gripe, but the learning curve of FF on your own is a huge barrier to the sport. I have no idea what I'm doing and I think I caught the two fish two weekends ago possibly on blind luck. Nothing has touched the caddis pupa nymph since. I've tried a wet + nymph combo, different casting types, different weights, etc.

Last Friday, on Indian Creek, none of us caught a single fish (my friend and wife were spin-fishing artificials and I was nymphing because it was cold). A guy moved into a hole I was fishing all morning long, three casts, hooked into a large rainbow. I was so thoroughly frustrated from snagging, breaking off leaders and flies, and not getting a single fish that I just let him have the hole since he wanted it so bad.

So far, not a good start to my first season back at FF.

Posted on: 4/23 12:02


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2012/12/23 5:30
From Erie, PA
Posts: 125
Online
I fish an indicator two ways and it really depends on water conditions and how much shot I can use, still cast properly and not spook fish when the rig hits the water, running an indicator 1 1/2-2 times the water depth works, using enough shot to get your flies to the bottom but still allowing them to drift freely with the current of the bottom the creek. This allows your indicator to ride freely on top of the water and not play effect on your flies below are moving (as long as your mending correctly) Another method I use, mainly for steelheading is I will stagger my shot all the way from 3 inches below my indicator down the leader to just above the flies. I use this method a lot fishing for steel, basically I will run my indicator at the exact depth or just a bit under the depth of the water im fishing, I will run shot staggered throughout the entire rig allowing me to get a vertical drift (kind of like the pinners do). Once you are familiar with the water that your fishing, running a perfect vertical rig in the water by using all that shot can be deadly. Again, they both have their time and place and take a lot of monkeying around to get it down to a science. Lots of guys look at my indi rigs and think im fishing to shallow but what they don't realize is the shot placement allows my flies to flow vertical under the float at the perfect desired fishing depth, also seems to help pick up strikes quicker. Steelhead love to grab a fly and spit it if it feels unnatural, fishing a long distance between your indy and flies can sometimes result in missed takes.

Posted on: 4/26 5:02


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2009/4/21 16:39
From G-side AKA GLENSIDE
Posts: 703
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how are you fishing? long line nymphing or hi sticking it. I think that rule is a ok one but I don't follow it. most of my nymphing is done by hi sticking so I don't use and indicator. I would advise any person who is struggling with it to use one.

Posted on: 4/27 11:20


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
Posts: 5525
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Really appreciate much of the info in this thread. Hope to put some of it to use end of this week if we aren't blown out.

Posted on: 4/29 9:29
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Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2013/7/2 7:11
From Somerset P.A.
Posts: 116
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BTRobertson.
My FF mentor was youtube and this website. I have only been FF for a little over 4 years and at first I also felt like every fish I caught was on blind luck, but the more I fished the more I realized what worked and what didn't and that when I did things right I would catch fish. I would say first off fish as much as you can, and fish as many places as you can. Going to the same familiar holes on the same streams over and over limits what you will learn(I am very guilty of this). Get a friend to start FF with you. When I started my best friend also started and we have been learning together ever since. We both do our own research and often fish by ourselves, but when we go out together we show each other whats been working for us, and often spend hours and a lot of beverages talking about new FF techniques, gear, rigs you name it. I am still very much a beginner myself, but I felt a lot like you at first so I hope this helps.

Posted on: 5/2 9:09


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2010/5/28 0:25
Posts: 566
Offline
Excuse me for not reading all of the responses, but the issue may be that you are not getting a drag-free drift, preventing the fly from reaching the bottom of the stream.

Posted on: 5/2 20:58


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2013/2/16 0:51
From Northern VA
Posts: 401
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BTRobertson,

I'd highly recommend starting out on smaller water and working your way up to something the size of the Yough as your skills progress. On a large creek or river, not only do you have to worry about what fly to use and how to present it, you also have to worry about finding fish. You could do everything right and the fish are just somewhere else. On a small stream you can pretty much guarantee there are fish in each decent pool. This means you're getting "instant feedback" on what's working and not working. It is just far fewer variables to deal with on small water.

With that said, don't be afraid to challenge yourself on larger water every now and then. As others have said, you won't learn as much if you fish the same place every time.

Posted on: 5/3 14:57
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Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
Posts: 5525
Offline
Lotz of win in this thread …. wanted to thank again and bump it for newbies. So much info but I used some bits and pieces for my best day on VC in my 2 years of fishing

Since I posted this I've done nothing but small stream fishing so it's been dry's with success. This AM I hit VC ...

Think I'm getting the hang cause I had my best day ever @ VC. I started with dry's but went to zebra midge with success. More importantly I was @ the bottom by adjusting weight, noticed the ‘ticking’, concentrated on my indicator speed, etc, etc … that said more work to be done cause all my action was in decent moving water … in the still/quiet deep pools none.

Thought this was a worthwhile thread to bump for the other newbies to read and possibly bookmark.

Posted on: 6/27 13:51
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Re: Getting it to the bottom ....
Moderator
Joined:
2006/9/11 8:26
From Chester County
Posts: 9006
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Quote:

Stagger_Lee wrote:
Lotz of win in this thread …. wanted to thank again and bump it for newbies. So much info but I used some bits and pieces for my best day on VC in my 2 years of fishing

Since I posted this I've done nothing but small stream fishing so it's been dry's with success. This AM I hit VC ...

Think I'm getting the hang cause I had my best day ever @ VC. I started with dry's but went to zebra midge with success. More importantly I was @ the bottom by adjusting weight, noticed the ‘ticking’, concentrated on my indicator speed, etc, etc … that said more work to be done cause all my action was in decent moving water … in the still/quiet deep pools none.

Thought this was a worthwhile thread to bump for the other newbies to read and possibly bookmark.


Just think how many feesh you wooda caught with a strap and shoestrings and a fancy green fishin' shirt, Stag.

Nice!

Posted on: 6/28 6:21


Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
2012/3/22 8:26
From Couldn't Care Less
Posts: 5525
Offline
Quote:
afish wrote:

Just think how many feesh you wooda caught with a strap and shoestrings and a fancy green fishin' shirt, Stag.

Nice!


Yea ... some guy helped me out. Nice guy but doesn't seem to know much abt fly fishin

Posted on: 6/28 19:00
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Re: Getting it to the bottom ....

Joined:
6/27 1:21
From NE Pennsylvania
Posts: 115
Offline
Couple things I might add...
1. Smaller line diameters allow the weighted fly, or fly with split shot to sink faster. So it is not uncommon for me to have 2 ft or more of straight 5x tippet at the business end of a nymphing rig to reduce drag and help sink rate. A standard 9ft 5x leader with an additional 2ft of 5x works well.

2. If dead drifting a fly, I usually fish at a pretty sharp angle up stream. This allows me to track the flies as they come down the stream and then pick the rig up slightly after it passes me. In other words, casting perpendicular to the bank or downstream is not good practice.

3. Also, i like to include a brightly colored indicator within my leader, (I tie my own) like a piece of amnesia which is bright red, this is easier to see and will jump or race upstream on a strike (or a snag).

4. Dead-drift fishing is based on the split shot bouncing along the bottom with the fly slightly raised off the bottom at the very end of the tippet. So I wouldnt combine a heavy anchor fly for tight-line euro nymphing with split shot. Its redundant.

5. European nymphing is an excellent way to become familiar with what bottom bouncing feels like. This relies on flies tied with heavy tungsten beads and several wraps of lead wire, and a streamlined body. Tying your own flies is almost a must because it is hard to find Anchor flies for sale.

6. I would suggest starting with a San Juan worm if you are going to dead-drift. It is an extremely light fly and so you will get good at adding or subtracting split-shot in finding the bottom. It is also highly productive and will get you a lot of hits.

7. I would suggest looking into European nymphing but definetly get the feel for dead drifting first....

8. And lastly, which I believe was already mentioned, focus on mending your line....this is important when you have varying currents as a floating line will move at different speeds and put bellies in the line. This will lift the rig and carry it downstream faster than normal and make it difficult to feel bottom and detect strikes.


Posted on: 6/28 22:40
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