Back at the Vise...

[djs12354]

I think Heritage Angler is getting even with me for some of the abuse....

Going from too heavy with the deer hair to too sparse?

Fire Away!

 

[JackM]

I think too long. Sparse is OK, but that one might ride a little funny. I am bad a comparaduns, so do as I say, not as I do.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

What abuse?

Dude, I had a great time Saturday. Just want to see you be prepared with your own ties that you'll need shortly.

On the comparadun...

Try tying in the wing at the 2/3 point on the shank. Your wing is creeping forward too much on the shank.

The wing should be the length of the shank in height.

Dub in front of the wing too - I don't see any dubbing up there...

Remember - after you stand up the wing, one wrap of dubbing tight to the back of the wing, next wrap tight to the front of the wing. You still need to dub more in front of that - dub right up to just behind the eye, and leave just enough room to whip finish.

Problems? Feel free to call....

H.A.

 

[dc410]

They are looking pretty decent Dave. One thing I always did with my comparaduns is put at least one thin wrap of dubbing (sometimes two) in front of the wing to prop up that deer hair wing. I always thought that was a bit more effective than just a thread dam. Don't know whether that is right or wrong. Something to consider. Keep up the good work!

 

[dc410]

You beat me H-A.

 

[gaeronf]

I tie mine a little weird, or maybe its completely normal. I don't know and don't care, frankly. I do it back to front. Tie in my tail, finish the body, and when i get to the wing. I stack my hair, take out all the fluffies on the bottom. Measure about 1 hook length and tie in the hair at that length (and at the point 2/3 up). I put some nice hard wraps holding the hair firm. For me, hair naturally goes around the shank a little (but not on the bottom). I trim the butts and throw some more wraps on. I use some dubbing to cover the butt-area of the hair then I pack as many wraps of dubbing as I can (so that it still looks normal) in front and against the wing. Somehow it turns out looking nice with the about 180 degree around the shank hair spread.

 

[Heritage-Angler]

Gaerbear, I'm not sure there is a "normal" when it comes to tying comparaduns. Here's what I do:

Start thread behind the eye, and wrap back to the end of the shank. Tight touching turns.

Tie in tail, wrap up to wing tie in point. Tie in wing, making the wraps progressively tighter as you tie down the butts, and placing each wrap behind (toward the tail) the last. After 8 wraps or so, lift the butts up and cut at a 45 degree angle so the butts are tapered. Don't let go of the butts before you cut them. Cover butts, and wrap thread back to the tail, making an even taper. Keep it skinny!

Make one wrap behind and under the tails to lift them slightly, and make one wrap in front to lock it down. Dub up to one wrap of dubbed thread behind the wing, and stop.

This is the key - use a half hitch tool inserted over the eye to push the wing upright. I actually push the tool over the tie in point. This "creases" the hair, and it stands upright with no thread dam.

Finish the last dubbed wrap tight to the back of the wing, and make the next dubbed wrap tight to the front of the wing. Continue dubbing to the hook eye, leaving just enough room to whip finish.
'
Tying in the wing this way results in a wing that won't tip front or back over time. After I whip finish, I spread the wing out with my fingers into a 180 degree fan shape. Since the wing is pinched tight between the dubbing wraps, it stays pretty much where you put it.

 

[Volksnurse]

Pretty good Dave, but yeah, shorten up and wrap some dubbing in front of the hair...

I like them in olive, cream, gray and sulpher yellow....

 

[Foxgap239]

dc410 wrote:
One thing I always did with my comparaduns is put at least one thin wrap of dubbing (sometimes two) in front of the wing to prop up that deer hair wing. I always thought that was a bit more effective than just a thread dam. Don't know whether that is right or wrong. Something to consider. Keep up the good work!

I think H-A will back me up here, I tie a pretty fair CD. I agree with H-A about where the wing should be and I also agree with DC about dubbing in front of the wing but where he says take one wrap, I say more. I use as much dubbing in front of the wing as I do on the entire abdomen. My technique is to dub very tightly in front of the wing. My wing almost never comes back forward and they float very well. That said Dave, you are coming along very well.

 

[djs12354]

Thanks, Guys.

Working on them - At least these look better than my caddis! I need to watch where I tie in the deer hair. I've been letting it creep forward too much. I'll keep working on it.

Starting to think that tying is more challenging than fishing!

 

[GreenWeenie]

Sparse or heavy also depends on water you are fishing. Faster, broken and/or off color water will benefit from more while slower, smooth and clear will benefit from less.

Comparaduns work especially well when the trout are taking flies that are drying and fluttering their wings, as the collar creates the illusion or sight pattern of fluttering.

 

[afishinado]

Heritage-Angler wrote:
Gaerbear, I'm not sure there is a "normal" when it comes to tying comparaduns. Here's what I do:

Start thread behind the eye, and wrap back to the end of the shank. Tight touching turns.

Tie in tail, wrap up to wing tie in point. Tie in wing, making the wraps progressively tighter as you tie down the butts, and placing each wrap behind (toward the tail) the last. After 8 wraps or so, lift the butts up and cut at a 45 degree angle so the butts are tapered. Don't let go of the butts before you cut them. Cover butts, and wrap thread back to the tail, making an even taper. Keep it skinny!

Make one wrap behind and under the tails to lift them slightly, and make one wrap in front to lock it down. Dub up to one wrap of dubbed thread behind the wing, and stop.

This is the key - use a half hitch tool inserted over the eye to push the wing upright. I actually push the tool over the tie in point. This "creases" the hair, and it stands upright with no thread dam.

Finish the last dubbed wrap tight to the back of the wing, and make the next dubbed wrap tight to the front of the wing. Continue dubbing to the hook eye, leaving just enough room to whip finish.
'
Tying in the wing this way results in a wing that won't tip front or back over time. After I whip finish, I spread the wing out with my fingers into a 180 degree fan shape. Since the wing is pinched tight between the dubbing wraps, it stays pretty much where you put it.

Nice Ed. I tie CDs pretty much the same way, but I use my fingernail to crease the wing instead of using a HH tool. Great idea. I'll have to try using the tool. Good stuff.

 

[Foxgap239]

afishinado wrote:
Nice Ed. I tie CDs pretty much the same way, but I use my fingernail to crease the wing instead of using a HH tool. Great idea. I'll have to try using the tool. Good stuff.

I actually don't do either. I tie in my wing first (about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the way back and secure it tight and clip off all the butts a few at at time so I can get as small a bump behind the wing as possible. I then secure it both back and then front. Leaving the wing bent at probably a 45 degree angle forward. I then run my thread halfway back and tie it the tail. I wrap it back to the bend and then split the tails using a simple figure 8 technique. I then dub up to the back of the wing placing a loose wrap over the bump. I then put about 3" (depending on hook size, of course) of tightly wrapped dubbing using wax onto the thread and then hold the wing back as I dub tightly right at the base on the wing. I then finish dubbing up to my tie off point and secure with a whip finish. I then fan the wing as described by H-A.

 

[Stagger_Lee]

Dave .. take all their advice but not for nothin ... I think they look good!

 

[Chaz]

When imitating a natural it is always better to tie the fly sparse, disclaimer for those that say never say never and never say always; It always is better.

 

[GreenWeenie]

Chaz, strange because I catch the crap out of trout on the Delaware using really heavily collared comparduns, Catskill style and also klinkhammer style flies. I guess those trout don't know any better.

In faster broken water, sparsely collared flies will sink. Look at the Wolff style flies - those have huge collars and were specifically tied to be fished in faster, broken water and guess what, they work.

Sparse collared flies work well in slower, flat, clear water while heavily collared ones work better in faster, broken and maybe off-colored water and you know what, there may even be some exceptions to this general rule.

 

[djs12354]

Just spent some time dropping my ties in water and they seemed to float properly. Upright, and looked okay to me.

Guess the acid test comes when I can get them over some risers!

 

[Phish_On]

Lookin good bud. They will catch fish fo sho.

 

[afishinado]

GreenWeenie wrote:
Chaz, strange because I catch the crap out of trout on the Delaware using really heavily collared comparduns, Catskill style and also klinkhammer style flies. I guess those trout don't know any better.

In faster broken water, sparsely collared flies will sink. Look at the Wolff style flies - those have huge collars and were specifically tied to be fished in faster, broken water and guess what, they work.

Sparse collared flies work well in slower, flat, clear water while heavily collared ones work better in faster, broken and maybe off-colored water and you know what, there may even be some exceptions to this general rule.

+1

 

[Foxgap239]

I'm going to come to Chaz's defense here. I believe when he refers to sparse he is referring to the non-hackled flies or the non hackle material. I know Chaz uses Whulff's (quite effectively, I might add) and his are tied well hackled. I simply think he was being specific to the fly posted by the OP. Perhps I am giving him too much credit but I doubt it.