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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

Joined:
2013/4/22 19:11
From Pennsylvania
Posts: 1
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I’ve been a lurker on this site for several years but this is my first post. I really enjoy this site and have learned a lot from the many talented fly fishermen who share their knowledge here.

One thing puzzles me, however, and I wonder if some of you could shed some light on this issue. My question is not meant to be a “troll;” I’m sincerely interested in your thoughtful replies.

The general consensus on here seems to be that operations like the one run by Donny Beaver are highly disliked, to put it mildly. His business plan is to privatize streams, stock them with large trout well beyond the carrying capacity of the stream so that they have to be spoon fed to survive, and to charge fly fishermen to fish there. I believe he also requires anglers to hire a guide.

Then we have Harman’s. They have 1.75 miles of privatized water stocked to the hilt with large trout. To fish there you have to either lodge there or buy a one-day permit to fish. From what I could find on their website, it’s ambiguous as to whether you have to hire a guide.

In principle, I’m wondering how these two organizations differ to the point where the general consensus here supports a tournament at Harman’s? Would PAFlyfish support a tourney on Beaver’s water, which, like the Harman’s tournament, would be done for advertising purposes to bring more revenue into the hands an “evil empire,” in this case Beaver’s Spring Ridge Club or whatever it’s called now?

Posted on: 2013/5/7 18:22


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial
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2006/9/9 19:16
From Dallastown, PA
Posts: 7171
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This has come up before and I wil try to clear things up a bit.

1. Beaver leases Blue Ribbon Wild Trout water, as much as he can to support his memberships.
2. In the case of the Little J he was keeping the public off a public stream.
3. Beaver Stocks the pellet pigs over the wild trout in these streams. And calls it conservation.

Beavers memberships are near $100,000 for the right to fish.

Harmans is no different than any individual private property where access is restricted or limited to the discretion of the landowner.

Harmans also is stocking a marginal stream where no wild trout exist.

Harmans is an affordable vacation spot/paid access situation.

They are very different business models.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 18:32
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial
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Joined:
2006/9/9 17:32
From Gettysburg
Posts: 9368
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DD,
Welcome to our community - glad to see you "signed up" - although your first post is a bit of doozy (but a fair question).

I'll take a crack at answering it. First off, we should visit the disclaimer that folks are entitled to different opinions on this topic. Like other controversies that we wrestle with around here, each forum member must decide for themselves where they stand on these issues. Speaking personally, my views continue to evolve and some of them have shifted a bit in the last few years as I've been more exposed to this community and it's diverse views. Nevertheless, there can be no doubt that operations like SRC are unpopular with many of our readers. In recent years, other private clubs have built a genuine fan base among our readers. At first glance, this may seem contradictory but some basic points ought to be remembered: In the case of Harmon's, they have been a strong supporter of Paflyfish and been very generous to us. Our readership has responded in kind. This is in stark contrast to other private clubs which, due to their prohibitively high membership costs, are not the slightest bit interested in cultivating us "average joes" that populate this site. Furthermore, Harmons is marginal water; they don't stock over wild trout, and don't make the pretentious claim to be protecting wild trout. Other clubs make this claim when their fishery depends in large part on artificially fed stocked fish. And finally, Harmon's didn't try to block us average joes from accessing a legally accessible (ie navigable) waterway as certain other groups have done in the past. Simply put, Harmon's wants us to visit their stream. Other clubs seek to exclude us unwashed masses. Sure, Harmons is private but they have provided free opportunities for us to visit and anyone of us is welcome there for modest fees. The many testimonials on this message board reveal a very satisfied group of customers who feel they got a great deal and wish to return again. These testimonials matter.
In the end, each of us must decide how we feel about private water and posted waters. Many of these clubs are very different and each ought to be judged by their individual merits. It's up to each of us to decide where we stand on these clubs. Many fishermen would not care to patronize any fee fishing clubs - and that's fine. Others may wish to support some clubs but not others. Ultimately, it's up to you.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 18:46


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2010/3/31 8:05
Posts: 125
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There is no "answer". The last two posts are opinions - and they are entitled to opinions. I've sat back on this one too. And my opinion is that there ain't much difference between the 2. I think that both operations are bad for FFing. That is my opinion. Okay - raise a bunch of 24" bows and stock them, keep people out and have clients pay to fish there. That's cool...? Go "fly-fishing" there and happen to be the guy that caught the 26" fish versus the 25" fish and you win.. haha.. Good one.

I do not know the specs regarding the North Fork, but are you telling me that no trout would live in that section if it weren't stocked by Harman's? I doubt it. And even so - post it and not allow the general public on that water that the good lord put here for us..? Some are alright with it and that is fine, but my opinion is no good...

Posted on: 2013/5/7 18:53


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

Joined:
2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
Posts: 7281
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Quote:

streamer-stripper wrote:

I do not know the specs regarding the North Fork, but are you telling me that no trout would live in that section if it weren't stocked by Harman's? I doubt it. And even so - post it and not allow the general public on that water that the good lord put here for us..? Some are alright with it and that is fine, but my opinion is no good...


Basically dries up over the summer. No wild trout even have a chance to survive.

They do not stop people from floating through and not fishing

Funny your last post here was this..... "Did those interested email Harman's?

The original post had asked that interested parties email Harman's. I know of two members, not me, that emailed Harman's but didn't post on this thread because they original said to email Harman's..? They heard nothing.

Is Becker really PAFF's representative? It seems to me he is always causing trouble on the site!..lol Best of luck!"


How did that go?

Posted on: 2013/5/7 18:57
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial
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2006/9/9 9:29
From Monessen, PA
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I too am ambivalent. I favor open access to streams, but respect landowners who want to set aside private property for clients. I only ever was critical of SRC when they attempted to privatize public water on the Little J. That said, it is still a good thing that representatives from PAFF were fortunate to have finished in first. I still do not care for competitive FFing.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 19:05
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2006/9/16 23:22
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Last Sunday I floated from Spruce Creek down the little J and through the "evil empire's" property. One big difference between "the Beav's" property and Harman's is that Harman's has no cameras and signs on their property warning you will be in trouble for stepping on their land.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 19:36


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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We had at least 5 or 6 boats float through Friday, Saturday, and Sunday at Harman's. No one said anything.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 19:41
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2012/10/24 19:22
From Landenberg, PA
Posts: 1741
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Biggie, did you moon the cameras :o)

Posted on: 2013/5/7 19:43
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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Well, my buddy and I gave the salute as we floated by the second camera.

Posted on: 2013/5/7 21:27


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2009/12/23 13:09
From Lewistown, PA
Posts: 93
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glad this topic came up.....i dont think the difference in cost to fish any clubwater makes a difference in the matter, still the same principle across the board, pay to play with big stocked fish!!!

clubs may not possess 'blue ribbon' water teeming with wild trout, but im sure raising and stocking behemoth sized rainbows negatively impacts other fish (other than trout!!) that may call that particular stream/river home

are these clubs catch and release??? If so, just the idea of people growing fish to extreme sizes, only to have it die in low water/warm temperature conditions is beyond wasteful. Harmans website states they stock over 6000 lbs of trout a year!!!! How much of that ends up being consumed, just asking, i really dont know.

and lastly, I live in a region of the state where wild trout streams are somewhat abundant, my opinion on this matter may be different if i lived where these resources were not more readily available lol




Posted on: 2013/5/7 23:00


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2012/10/24 19:22
From Landenberg, PA
Posts: 1741
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Ha ha, good for you.

To answer the question posed- spring ridge is very limited for the ultra wealthy, harmans is like any other day ticket water - but the price is a room, that most can afford on an average pay check maybe once a year.

they're both businesses though, and whilst neither is ideal for the locals I'm sure, harmans is still in reach of most people.


Posted on: 2013/5/7 23:09
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Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2010/3/10 9:38
From Brookville, PA
Posts: 155
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There are a few major differences that I have not seen posted. One the Harman's have been owned by the family since 1939 I believe. Is when they started renting cabins. Its a business that is affordable and really anyone can afford the stay to fish the property. It cost less than most major hotels per night to stay at first rate accommodations.

Beaver and his deal is big buck membership fees for access I think last I looked its 10 to 20 grand to get into the club. They search out and use that money to buy more stream access and close it off to the public. The business model is totally different. Harman's is a resort that is an affordable family destination.

Again great job to Shane and Phil! its pretty sad that this got hijacked by a serious troll post.

Posted on: 2013/5/8 9:43


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

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2010/6/9 12:35
From down the block from the Letort.
Posts: 955
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Quote:
The business model is totally different.


Uhmmm, no, it isn't. It's pay to play, period. Doesn't matter if the land was bought in 1939 or 2002, or what the price tag is to play. It's big, stocked, out of place trout that you have to pay to fish over, unless you're floating thru.

There really is no difference beyond the clientel that's cattered to.


Posted on: 2013/5/8 10:14


Re: Harman's North Fork Invitationial

Joined:
2010/6/26 11:19
From Along the Lehigh Above the Gap
Posts: 7281
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My question is this......If it is not your cup of tea, it is not your cup of tea. But why come on here and bash a sponsor of the site? Especially a sponsor that has been very generous with our members. And now because of that sponsorship, PA Fly Fish is going to be recognized all over the country and get some real good publicity. I just find that in bad taste.

Posted on: 2013/5/8 10:18
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